| 05:38:10 | spsneo: | Testbaudson, hello |
| 05:38:23 | Testbaudson: | hi spsneo |
| 05:38:56 | spsneo: | Well I have not been yet able to complete the dbchanges script |
| 05:39:07 | spsneo: | I guess I'll require few more days |
| 05:39:17 | spsneo: | is that ok? |
| 05:39:25 | Testbaudson: | maybe you can send what you have so I can do a quick review |
| 05:39:57 | Testbaudson: | I will not run it, just take a look at the code |
| 05:40:40 | spsneo: | Wait for a couple of days I'll come up with the entire executable code |
| 05:40:53 | spsneo: | and can u provide me the link of code convention page |
| 05:40:58 | spsneo: | I would like to see it again |
| 05:41:27 | spsneo: | And what should be the format of my mapbender wiki page |
| 05:41:27 | Testbaudson: | wait a second |
| 05:41:28 | spsneo: | ? |
| 05:41:51 | Testbaudson: | http://www.mapbender.org/index.php/Category:Developer |
| 05:41:52 | sigq: | Title: Category:Developer - MapbenderWiki ( at www.mapbender.org ) |
| 05:42:50 | spsneo: | ok thanks I got it |
| 05:43:16 | Testbaudson: | will you give us a status report this week? |
| 05:43:26 | : | * Testbaudson is curious |
| 05:51:48 | spsneo: | Testbaudson, I won't be giving a status report this week |
| 05:52:13 | Testbaudson: | maybe just send us a few sentences... |
| 05:52:32 | Testbaudson: | I think this is important for you to review what you did... |
| 05:52:37 | Testbaudson: | and for us to help you |
| 05:52:39 | spsneo: | Testbaudson, ok for sure |
| 05:52:43 | Testbaudson: | thaniks |
| 05:52:45 | Testbaudson: | thanks |
| 05:52:47 | spsneo: | Testbaudson, thanks |
| 05:53:11 | spsneo: | Well I am thinking of fully automating the script |
| 05:53:24 | spsneo: | as in whenever a new release comes |
| 05:53:24 | Testbaudson: | :- ) sounds good |
| 05:53:59 | spsneo: | There will be a proper file format may be in xml or some other format |
| 05:54:15 | spsneo: | wherein changes will have to be mentioned. |
| 05:54:23 | spsneo: | and then the script + that file |
| 05:54:35 | spsneo: | will be the updater for the mapbender users |
| 05:54:50 | Testbaudson: | nice |
| 05:55:00 | Testbaudson: | please share these thoughts in details with us at the dev list... |
| 05:55:12 | Testbaudson: | so that we can start an open discussion |
| 05:55:16 | spsneo: | ya ok |
| 05:55:17 | Testbaudson: | and provide you help |
| 05:55:27 | spsneo: | ok let me write a mail on this |
| 05:55:34 | Testbaudson: | brilliant |
| 05:55:51 | spsneo: | and one more question |
| 05:55:57 | spsneo: | which IDE do you normally use |
| 05:55:59 | spsneo: | ? |
| 05:57:02 | Testbaudson: | what do you mean by IDE? |
| 05:58:24 | Testbaudson: | we use Eclipse, if that's what you mean |
| 05:58:39 | spsneo: | yup |
| 05:58:43 | Testbaudson: | I have been using Aptana for quite some time... |
| 05:59:00 | Testbaudson: | but I'm having a hard time getting used to it |
| 05:59:02 | spsneo: | Aptana is also good |
| 05:59:16 | Testbaudson: | Do you use Aptana? |
| 05:59:23 | spsneo: | yup |
| 05:59:38 | Testbaudson: | Do you have syntax highlighting for PHP? |
| 05:59:47 | Testbaudson: | somehow this doesn't work for me... |
| 05:59:49 | spsneo: | but many a times I use, simple vi |
| 05:59:54 | spsneo: | vim , I mean |
| 06:02:12 | spsneo: | vim is also great |
| 06:43:45 | LenKne: | Testbaudson: Do you have time for a question |
| 06:53:26 | Testbaudson: | Hi LenKne |
| 06:53:40 | Testbaudson: | yes, I have time |
| 06:53:52 | LenKne: | Thanks |
| 06:54:24 | LenKne: | First, I am interested in looking atdocumenting the current user/group model |
| 06:55:06 | LenKne: | Have been doing this informally to try and understand how they fit together |
| 06:56:06 | LenKne: | I think giving groups the abilities to contain groups could change the model |
| 06:56:38 | LenKne: | And that maybe it would be better to look at going to roles and privileges |
| 06:58:14 | LenKne: | If elements are going to be split and a new "lite" version of Mapbender developed, this seems like a good time to also look at roles? |
| 06:59:32 | : | * Testbaudson is thinking |
| 07:00:17 | Testbaudson: | Yes, we would have to implement roles in a special development scenario |
| 07:00:21 | Testbaudson: | like a "lite" version |
| 07:00:50 | Testbaudson: | It would be nice to have more explicit privileges... |
| 07:01:01 | Testbaudson: | the privileges implied by sharing applications are not transparent |
| 07:01:05 | Testbaudson: | in my opinion |
| 07:01:40 | Testbaudson: | How familiar are you with the PostgreSQL user model? |
| 07:01:54 | Testbaudson: | My knowledge is superficial only |
| 07:02:08 | Testbaudson: | But I believe we could model after their approach |
| 07:02:50 | LenKne: | I don't know that my knowledge is much better, only what I have had to know to do some administration |
| 07:03:18 | LenKne: | Reading through the documentation this mornng, it does not look all that complex |
| 07:04:20 | Testbaudson: | yes I agree |
| 07:04:31 | Testbaudson: | and it's quite transparent |
| 07:04:56 | LenKne: | and as you said, does fit the Mapbender model quite well |
| 07:05:14 | LenKne: | Just uses some different terminology |
| 07:06:18 | Testbaudson: | So, we would have to define what privileges we have in Mapbender |
| 07:08:35 | LenKne: | Yes, and combine that with some default roles ( start with the list of user levels from earlier discussion_ |
| 07:08:40 | LenKne: | ) |
| 07:09:18 | LenKne: | and Mapbender administrators could still customize their own privileges and roles as needed |
| 07:09:24 | Testbaudson: | yes, but I think these default roles... |
| 07:09:34 | Testbaudson: | should only be used for the default application |
| 07:09:59 | Testbaudson: | Maybe we just have superuser and privileges |
| 07:11:06 | : | * Testbaudson is rethinking |
| 07:11:14 | LenKne: | I agree with default roles should only be used with default applications, but |
| 07:11:58 | LenKne: | should their be a default role called "public" |
| 07:12:22 | LenKne: | that can have access to an application |
| 07:13:15 | Testbaudson: | you mean, like a default guest user? |
| 07:13:19 | LenKne: | For example, if you create a couple applications that are open for anyone to use, it would be nice to have one established role that would have permission |
| 07:13:31 | : | * spsneo is excited to read this discussion |
| 07:13:32 | LenKne: | Yes, guest user |
| 07:13:37 | Testbaudson: | ok, so a default role that doesn't need to authenticate |
| 07:13:49 | Testbaudson: | spsneo: thanks for joining |
| 07:14:15 | LenKne: | Yes, but |
| 07:14:34 | LenKne: | the current Mapbender model requires authentication |
| 07:14:52 | LenKne: | I think? |
| 07:15:12 | Testbaudson: | yes, but by adding GET parameters you can log in automatically |
| 07:15:37 | Testbaudson: | so if the user was "public", no password would be required |
| 07:16:41 | Testbaudson: | I'm not sure if you're familiar with this type of logging in... |
| 07:16:43 | Testbaudson: | example: |
| 07:16:56 | Testbaudson: | http://<path>/frames/login.php?name=guest&password=guest |
| 07:17:18 | LenKne: | Yes, I'm using it myself to get guests into our demo applciation |
| 07:17:34 | LenKne: | I think I am spliting hairs here |
| 07:17:48 | Testbaudson: | no, a lot of user requested this |
| 07:18:05 | LenKne: | Guest is being authenticated, but the password is null |
| 07:18:10 | Testbaudson: | yes |
| 07:18:20 | Testbaudson: | this is how it could be done |
| 07:18:46 | Testbaudson: | so public would be the lowest in the hierarchy |
| 07:20:11 | Testbaudson: | One more question, LenKne |
| 07:20:28 | Testbaudson: | In Mapbender, a user is owned by another user |
| 07:20:37 | Testbaudson: | do you know how this is handled in PostgreSQL |
| 07:20:37 | Testbaudson: | ? |
| 07:22:56 | LenKne: | In the table mb_user, the field mb_user_owner references another user ID who owns that user |
| 07:23:23 | LenKne: | Or are you talking how postgres handles its users? |
| 07:23:27 | Testbaudson: | sorry, my question was not precise |
| 07:23:34 | Testbaudson: | yes, how postgres handles its users |
| 07:24:05 | LenKne: | No, I do not know the details, but I will research |
| 07:24:12 | Testbaudson: | good |
| 07:24:47 | LenKne: | So I will diagram the current Mapbender user/group model |
| 07:25:26 | LenKne: | and then put together another model that uses ideas from the Postgres model |
| 07:25:44 | Testbaudson: | this sounds great! |
| 07:25:51 | LenKne: | to see what kind of work it would take to make Mapbender model more like it |
| 07:26:18 | Testbaudson: | if we succeed, this will be a huge boost to Mapbender's transparency... |
| 07:26:24 | LenKne: | Maybe I will be able to use that visualization tool you like ; ) |
| 07:26:38 | Testbaudson: | finally people will understand the concept of user management :- ) |
| 07:26:42 | Testbaudson: | hehe |
| 07:27:06 | LenKne: | Ok, so that wasn't my original question |
| 07:27:21 | LenKne: | but it can wait |
| 07:27:27 | Testbaudson: | no I have time |
| 07:27:45 | Testbaudson: | we can discuss it now |
| 07:28:19 | LenKne: | Ok, I have been getting interested in your proposal to remove IFRAMES - I believe you called them the devil |
| 07:28:43 | Testbaudson: | they are |
| 07:28:47 | LenKne: | I've been trying to see how this would be possible in Mapbender... |
| 07:29:14 | LenKne: | and have know idea what other options could be used |
| 07:29:28 | LenKne: | Sound like a hard transistion? |
| 07:29:49 | Testbaudson: | well, not really |
| 07:29:58 | Testbaudson: | of course, a lot of modules rely on iframes |
| 07:30:14 | Testbaudson: | it will take some time to change them all |
| 07:30:34 | Testbaudson: | but basically, they can be tranfered to "div" elements |
| 07:30:57 | Testbaudson: | example: now, we use "a" for the admin modules |
| 07:30:59 | Testbaudson: | = links |
| 07:31:21 | Testbaudson: | in the future, they would not link to the iframe... |
| 07:31:28 | Testbaudson: | but have some onclick event |
| 07:31:48 | Testbaudson: | that would trigger some JavaScript to fill that "div" |
| 07:32:22 | LenKne: | Using an AJAX request? |
| 07:32:44 | Testbaudson: | AJAX would be included whenever you have to get/set data |
| 07:32:52 | Testbaudson: | example: |
| 07:32:58 | Testbaudson: | you click the link |
| 07:33:08 | Testbaudson: | the onclick triggers a JS function |
| 07:33:31 | Testbaudson: | ( the JS function is in the js-file mentioned under "JavaScript" in edit elements ) |
| 07:33:46 | Testbaudson: | that JS function creates the form in the div... |
| 07:33:49 | Testbaudson: | using jQuery |
| 07:33:56 | Testbaudson: | when the form is complete... |
| 07:34:01 | Testbaudson: | the data is fetched via AJAX |
| 07:34:08 | Testbaudson: | that's it |
| 07:34:52 | Testbaudson: | so each module would have a client and a server side file |
| 07:35:57 | LenKne: | Got it - not too complex |
| 07:36:09 | LenKne: | but a lot of modules to touch |
| 07:36:13 | Testbaudson: | the problem with iframes is... |
| 07:36:21 | Testbaudson: | that you have a hierarchy in JavaScript code |
| 07:36:38 | Testbaudson: | instead of simply calling a function from a core class... |
| 07:36:52 | Testbaudson: | you have to add "window.frames[framename].functionname |
| 07:36:54 | Testbaudson: | " |
| 07:37:06 | Testbaudson: | this is ugly |
| 07:37:23 | Testbaudson: | there are also a lot of bugs, like you can't encode JSON... |
| 07:37:27 | Testbaudson: | of an object in another frame |
| 07:37:30 | Testbaudson: | very annoying |
| 07:37:44 | Testbaudson: | and: without iframes we have full control over load status... |
| 07:37:48 | Testbaudson: | and it will be much faster |
| 07:38:12 | Testbaudson: | We could start in a very basic environment... |
| 07:38:16 | Testbaudson: | and at one module at a time |
| 07:38:24 | Testbaudson: | the aim is to create a lot of re-usable code |
| 07:38:35 | Testbaudson: | so that the first modules might be a lot of work... |
| 07:38:46 | Testbaudson: | but in the end adding another module could be easy |
| 07:39:37 | LenKne: | Ok, I'm with you, the IFRAME is evil |
| 07:39:59 | LenKne: | Thinking about the pain it is to modify some modules |
| 07:40:05 | LenKne: | like digitize |
| 07:40:21 | LenKne: | IFRAME is what was the tough part |
| 07:41:04 | Testbaudson: | don't worry about digitize |
| 07:41:14 | Testbaudson: | we just focus on the admin modules |
| 07:41:42 | Testbaudson: | and maybe we focus on application, user, and wms first |
| 07:41:55 | Testbaudson: | leaving out wfs, and some oddball modules |
| 07:41:56 | LenKne: | Yes, I'm not going to touch digitize, just thinking back to when I first installed Mapbender |
| 07:42:55 | LenKne: | Agreeded, still think the user/roles is the first area to work with |
| 07:43:09 | LenKne: | Actually, that's agreed |
| 07:43:26 | Testbaudson: | good...I will try to put some pressure on establishing a lite version... |
| 07:43:50 | LenKne: | +1 from me |
| 07:44:09 | LenKne: | And the splitting of the elements |
| 07:44:18 | Testbaudson: | so you focus on theory first, good idea |
| 07:44:30 | : | * Testbaudson is thrilled |
| 07:45:03 | Testbaudson: | this is great about GSoC, we can build stuff that is never done in day-to-day work |
| 07:45:45 | Testbaudson: | LenKne, any other questions? |
| 07:45:54 | Testbaudson: | otherwise, I'll be heading home |
| 07:46:13 | LenKne: | Just one quick one, maybe for spsneo as well |
| 07:46:20 | Testbaudson: | shoot |
| 07:46:40 | spsneo: | LenKne, yup |
| 07:47:00 | LenKne: | using ChatZilla, how can I send the comments like "Testbaudson is thrilled" |
| 07:47:23 | Testbaudson: | write: /me is thrilled |
| 07:47:23 | spsneo: | its like "/me message" |
| 07:47:42 | : | * Testbaudson loves using the /me syntax |
| 07:47:55 | : | * LenKne Excellent! |
| 07:48:17 | LenKne: | It is the like things in life : ) |
| 07:48:27 | Testbaudson: | :- ) |
| 07:48:30 | LenKne: | It is the little things in life : ) |
| 07:48:35 | Testbaudson: | ok, I'll be off then.... |
| 07:48:41 | LenKne: | Thanks, bye |
| 07:48:52 | spsneo: | Testbaudson, ok thanks |
| 07:48:55 | Testbaudson: | thanks LenKne and spsneo |
| 07:48:56 | Testbaudson: | bye |
| 07:48:59 | spsneo: | Testbaudson, bye |
| 08:35:06 | spsneo: | LenKne, are you there on gtalk? |
| 08:35:35 | LenKne: | I'm here |
| 08:35:59 | spsneo: | not on gtalk? |
| 08:36:38 | LenKne: | No, have not used it |
| 08:36:46 | spsneo: | LenKne, there are still few things to be clear about mapbender for me |
| 08:37:03 | spsneo: | can you summarize about mapbender from your point of view |
| 08:37:34 | LenKne: | How I use it? |
| 08:37:40 | spsneo: | yup |
| 08:38:14 | LenKne: | First, some background on my perspective of Mapbender. I've been a Mapbender users since March 2007 while working on a project that is bring mapping and GIS to K-16 education ( maps.umn.edu ). I work with Eco Education, a non-profit group which helps students explore their local environment. Eco Ed provides the curriculum, I provide the mapping tools ( Mapbender/MapServer/Postgres/PostGIS ). ... |
| 08:38:16 | LenKne: | ...We also have three freshman level classes at the University using Mapbender to varying degrees. All told, we have about 10 Mapbender applications currently being used. I am the "über" |
| 08:38:18 | LenKne: | admin, but there is a person at Eco Education who does a fair amount of administration as well. |
| 08:38:37 | LenKne: | This text is from an earlier email |
| 08:38:50 | spsneo: | yup i read that mail |
| 08:39:10 | LenKne: | More information can be found at http://maps.umn.edu |
| 08:39:11 | sigq: | Title: MIIM ( at maps.umn.edu ) |
| 08:39:19 | spsneo: | LenKne, well can u share the mapbender notes/lectures u had in ur univ |
| 08:40:27 | spsneo: | LenKne, look i have understood whats WMS and WFS |
| 08:40:32 | spsneo: | how does a mapbender work |
| 08:40:51 | spsneo: | but I am still not pretty clear about users and admin thingy |
| 08:41:15 | LenKne: | I've not had any classes on Mapbender |
| 08:41:25 | spsneo: | LenKne, ok |
| 08:41:33 | LenKne: | We do have wiki with notes about how we have implemented our Mapbender site |
| 08:41:48 | spsneo: | can u send the url? |
| 08:41:59 | LenKne: | It requires a U logon to access... |
| 08:42:06 | spsneo: | oops |
| 08:42:14 | spsneo: | wont it be possible for me to access |
| 08:42:21 | LenKne: | I will ask if I can setup an account for you |
| 08:42:31 | spsneo: | cool |
| 08:42:35 | spsneo: | thank you very much |
| 08:42:54 | LenKne: | Some of the pages are really a mess, but it does have some notes on how I setup Mapbender |
| 08:43:17 | spsneo: | its ok |
| 08:43:24 | spsneo: | I'll just go through it |
| 08:43:26 | LenKne: | For me,the WMS and WFS took awhile to figure out. |
| 08:43:33 | spsneo: | to get more knowledge of it |
| 08:44:37 | LenKne: | I'm pulling together all of the current documentation on the wiki about users and groups and will diagram my understanding of it |
| 08:44:47 | spsneo: | ok kool |
| 11:18:16 | seven: | ping nimix |
| 11:18:19 | seven: | Wake up. |
| 11:18:36 | seven: | Please contact ur if at all possible. Danks. |
| 11:20:56 | nimix: | seven:yap |
| 11:21:08 | seven: | Excellent. |
| 11:21:20 | nimix: | warum? |
| 11:21:33 | seven: | Och, einfach so, er sehnt sich nach Dir. |
| 11:21:42 | nimix: | achso |
| 11:22:03 | seven: | Vielleicht TreeGDE oder irgendwas mit KML? |
| 11:22:17 | seven: | er hätte ein, zwei Tage oder so. |