#MAPBENDER IRC Log - 2008-05-29

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05:38:10 spsneo: Testbaudson, hello
05:38:23 Testbaudson: hi spsneo
05:38:56 spsneo: Well I have not been yet able to complete the dbchanges script
05:39:07 spsneo: I guess I'll require few more days
05:39:17 spsneo: is that ok?
05:39:25 Testbaudson: maybe you can send what you have so I can do a quick review
05:39:57 Testbaudson: I will not run it, just take a look at the code
05:40:40 spsneo: Wait for a couple of days I'll come up with the entire executable code
05:40:53 spsneo: and can u provide me the link of code convention page
05:40:58 spsneo: I would like to see it again
05:41:27 spsneo: And what should be the format of my mapbender wiki page
05:41:27 Testbaudson: wait a second
05:41:28 spsneo: ?
05:41:51 Testbaudson: http://www.mapbender.org/index.php/Category:Developer
05:41:52 sigq: Title: Category:Developer - MapbenderWiki ( at www.mapbender.org )
05:42:50 spsneo: ok thanks I got it
05:43:16 Testbaudson: will you give us a status report this week?
05:43:26 : * Testbaudson is curious
05:51:48 spsneo: Testbaudson, I won't be giving a status report this week
05:52:13 Testbaudson: maybe just send us a few sentences...
05:52:32 Testbaudson: I think this is important for you to review what you did...
05:52:37 Testbaudson: and for us to help you
05:52:39 spsneo: Testbaudson, ok for sure
05:52:43 Testbaudson: thaniks
05:52:45 Testbaudson: thanks
05:52:47 spsneo: Testbaudson, thanks
05:53:11 spsneo: Well I am thinking of fully automating the script
05:53:24 spsneo: as in whenever a new release comes
05:53:24 Testbaudson: :- ) sounds good
05:53:59 spsneo: There will be a proper file format may be in xml or some other format
05:54:15 spsneo: wherein changes will have to be mentioned.
05:54:23 spsneo: and then the script + that file
05:54:35 spsneo: will be the updater for the mapbender users
05:54:50 Testbaudson: nice
05:55:00 Testbaudson: please share these thoughts in details with us at the dev list...
05:55:12 Testbaudson: so that we can start an open discussion
05:55:16 spsneo: ya ok
05:55:17 Testbaudson: and provide you help
05:55:27 spsneo: ok let me write a mail on this
05:55:34 Testbaudson: brilliant
05:55:51 spsneo: and one more question
05:55:57 spsneo: which IDE do you normally use
05:55:59 spsneo: ?
05:57:02 Testbaudson: what do you mean by IDE?
05:58:24 Testbaudson: we use Eclipse, if that's what you mean
05:58:39 spsneo: yup
05:58:43 Testbaudson: I have been using Aptana for quite some time...
05:59:00 Testbaudson: but I'm having a hard time getting used to it
05:59:02 spsneo: Aptana is also good
05:59:16 Testbaudson: Do you use Aptana?
05:59:23 spsneo: yup
05:59:38 Testbaudson: Do you have syntax highlighting for PHP?
05:59:47 Testbaudson: somehow this doesn't work for me...
05:59:49 spsneo: but many a times I use, simple vi
05:59:54 spsneo: vim , I mean
06:02:12 spsneo: vim is also great
06:43:45 LenKne: Testbaudson: Do you have time for a question
06:53:26 Testbaudson: Hi LenKne
06:53:40 Testbaudson: yes, I have time
06:53:52 LenKne: Thanks
06:54:24 LenKne: First, I am interested in looking atdocumenting the current user/group model
06:55:06 LenKne: Have been doing this informally to try and understand how they fit together
06:56:06 LenKne: I think giving groups the abilities to contain groups could change the model
06:56:38 LenKne: And that maybe it would be better to look at going to roles and privileges
06:58:14 LenKne: If elements are going to be split and a new "lite" version of Mapbender developed, this seems like a good time to also look at roles?
06:59:32 : * Testbaudson is thinking
07:00:17 Testbaudson: Yes, we would have to implement roles in a special development scenario
07:00:21 Testbaudson: like a "lite" version
07:00:50 Testbaudson: It would be nice to have more explicit privileges...
07:01:01 Testbaudson: the privileges implied by sharing applications are not transparent
07:01:05 Testbaudson: in my opinion
07:01:40 Testbaudson: How familiar are you with the PostgreSQL user model?
07:01:54 Testbaudson: My knowledge is superficial only
07:02:08 Testbaudson: But I believe we could model after their approach
07:02:50 LenKne: I don't know that my knowledge is much better, only what I have had to know to do some administration
07:03:18 LenKne: Reading through the documentation this mornng, it does not look all that complex
07:04:20 Testbaudson: yes I agree
07:04:31 Testbaudson: and it's quite transparent
07:04:56 LenKne: and as you said, does fit the Mapbender model quite well
07:05:14 LenKne: Just uses some different terminology
07:06:18 Testbaudson: So, we would have to define what privileges we have in Mapbender
07:08:35 LenKne: Yes, and combine that with some default roles ( start with the list of user levels from earlier discussion_
07:08:40 LenKne: )
07:09:18 LenKne: and Mapbender administrators could still customize their own privileges and roles as needed
07:09:24 Testbaudson: yes, but I think these default roles...
07:09:34 Testbaudson: should only be used for the default application
07:09:59 Testbaudson: Maybe we just have superuser and privileges
07:11:06 : * Testbaudson is rethinking
07:11:14 LenKne: I agree with default roles should only be used with default applications, but
07:11:58 LenKne: should their be a default role called "public"
07:12:22 LenKne: that can have access to an application
07:13:15 Testbaudson: you mean, like a default guest user?
07:13:19 LenKne: For example, if you create a couple applications that are open for anyone to use, it would be nice to have one established role that would have permission
07:13:31 : * spsneo is excited to read this discussion
07:13:32 LenKne: Yes, guest user
07:13:37 Testbaudson: ok, so a default role that doesn't need to authenticate
07:13:49 Testbaudson: spsneo: thanks for joining
07:14:15 LenKne: Yes, but
07:14:34 LenKne: the current Mapbender model requires authentication
07:14:52 LenKne: I think?
07:15:12 Testbaudson: yes, but by adding GET parameters you can log in automatically
07:15:37 Testbaudson: so if the user was "public", no password would be required
07:16:41 Testbaudson: I'm not sure if you're familiar with this type of logging in...
07:16:43 Testbaudson: example:
07:16:56 Testbaudson: http://<path>/frames/login.php?name=guest&password=guest
07:17:18 LenKne: Yes, I'm using it myself to get guests into our demo applciation
07:17:34 LenKne: I think I am spliting hairs here
07:17:48 Testbaudson: no, a lot of user requested this
07:18:05 LenKne: Guest is being authenticated, but the password is null
07:18:10 Testbaudson: yes
07:18:20 Testbaudson: this is how it could be done
07:18:46 Testbaudson: so public would be the lowest in the hierarchy
07:20:11 Testbaudson: One more question, LenKne
07:20:28 Testbaudson: In Mapbender, a user is owned by another user
07:20:37 Testbaudson: do you know how this is handled in PostgreSQL
07:20:37 Testbaudson: ?
07:22:56 LenKne: In the table mb_user, the field mb_user_owner references another user ID who owns that user
07:23:23 LenKne: Or are you talking how postgres handles its users?
07:23:27 Testbaudson: sorry, my question was not precise
07:23:34 Testbaudson: yes, how postgres handles its users
07:24:05 LenKne: No, I do not know the details, but I will research
07:24:12 Testbaudson: good
07:24:47 LenKne: So I will diagram the current Mapbender user/group model
07:25:26 LenKne: and then put together another model that uses ideas from the Postgres model
07:25:44 Testbaudson: this sounds great!
07:25:51 LenKne: to see what kind of work it would take to make Mapbender model more like it
07:26:18 Testbaudson: if we succeed, this will be a huge boost to Mapbender's transparency...
07:26:24 LenKne: Maybe I will be able to use that visualization tool you like ; )
07:26:38 Testbaudson: finally people will understand the concept of user management :- )
07:26:42 Testbaudson: hehe
07:27:06 LenKne: Ok, so that wasn't my original question
07:27:21 LenKne: but it can wait
07:27:27 Testbaudson: no I have time
07:27:45 Testbaudson: we can discuss it now
07:28:19 LenKne: Ok, I have been getting interested in your proposal to remove IFRAMES - I believe you called them the devil
07:28:43 Testbaudson: they are
07:28:47 LenKne: I've been trying to see how this would be possible in Mapbender...
07:29:14 LenKne: and have know idea what other options could be used
07:29:28 LenKne: Sound like a hard transistion?
07:29:49 Testbaudson: well, not really
07:29:58 Testbaudson: of course, a lot of modules rely on iframes
07:30:14 Testbaudson: it will take some time to change them all
07:30:34 Testbaudson: but basically, they can be tranfered to "div" elements
07:30:57 Testbaudson: example: now, we use "a" for the admin modules
07:30:59 Testbaudson: = links
07:31:21 Testbaudson: in the future, they would not link to the iframe...
07:31:28 Testbaudson: but have some onclick event
07:31:48 Testbaudson: that would trigger some JavaScript to fill that "div"
07:32:22 LenKne: Using an AJAX request?
07:32:44 Testbaudson: AJAX would be included whenever you have to get/set data
07:32:52 Testbaudson: example:
07:32:58 Testbaudson: you click the link
07:33:08 Testbaudson: the onclick triggers a JS function
07:33:31 Testbaudson: ( the JS function is in the js-file mentioned under "JavaScript" in edit elements )
07:33:46 Testbaudson: that JS function creates the form in the div...
07:33:49 Testbaudson: using jQuery
07:33:56 Testbaudson: when the form is complete...
07:34:01 Testbaudson: the data is fetched via AJAX
07:34:08 Testbaudson: that's it
07:34:52 Testbaudson: so each module would have a client and a server side file
07:35:57 LenKne: Got it - not too complex
07:36:09 LenKne: but a lot of modules to touch
07:36:13 Testbaudson: the problem with iframes is...
07:36:21 Testbaudson: that you have a hierarchy in JavaScript code
07:36:38 Testbaudson: instead of simply calling a function from a core class...
07:36:52 Testbaudson: you have to add "window.frames[framename].functionname
07:36:54 Testbaudson: "
07:37:06 Testbaudson: this is ugly
07:37:23 Testbaudson: there are also a lot of bugs, like you can't encode JSON...
07:37:27 Testbaudson: of an object in another frame
07:37:30 Testbaudson: very annoying
07:37:44 Testbaudson: and: without iframes we have full control over load status...
07:37:48 Testbaudson: and it will be much faster
07:38:12 Testbaudson: We could start in a very basic environment...
07:38:16 Testbaudson: and at one module at a time
07:38:24 Testbaudson: the aim is to create a lot of re-usable code
07:38:35 Testbaudson: so that the first modules might be a lot of work...
07:38:46 Testbaudson: but in the end adding another module could be easy
07:39:37 LenKne: Ok, I'm with you, the IFRAME is evil
07:39:59 LenKne: Thinking about the pain it is to modify some modules
07:40:05 LenKne: like digitize
07:40:21 LenKne: IFRAME is what was the tough part
07:41:04 Testbaudson: don't worry about digitize
07:41:14 Testbaudson: we just focus on the admin modules
07:41:42 Testbaudson: and maybe we focus on application, user, and wms first
07:41:55 Testbaudson: leaving out wfs, and some oddball modules
07:41:56 LenKne: Yes, I'm not going to touch digitize, just thinking back to when I first installed Mapbender
07:42:55 LenKne: Agreeded, still think the user/roles is the first area to work with
07:43:09 LenKne: Actually, that's agreed
07:43:26 Testbaudson: good...I will try to put some pressure on establishing a lite version...
07:43:50 LenKne: +1 from me
07:44:09 LenKne: And the splitting of the elements
07:44:18 Testbaudson: so you focus on theory first, good idea
07:44:30 : * Testbaudson is thrilled
07:45:03 Testbaudson: this is great about GSoC, we can build stuff that is never done in day-to-day work
07:45:45 Testbaudson: LenKne, any other questions?
07:45:54 Testbaudson: otherwise, I'll be heading home
07:46:13 LenKne: Just one quick one, maybe for spsneo as well
07:46:20 Testbaudson: shoot
07:46:40 spsneo: LenKne, yup
07:47:00 LenKne: using ChatZilla, how can I send the comments like "Testbaudson is thrilled"
07:47:23 Testbaudson: write: /me is thrilled
07:47:23 spsneo: its like "/me message"
07:47:42 : * Testbaudson loves using the /me syntax
07:47:55 : * LenKne Excellent!
07:48:17 LenKne: It is the like things in life : )
07:48:27 Testbaudson: :- )
07:48:30 LenKne: It is the little things in life : )
07:48:35 Testbaudson: ok, I'll be off then....
07:48:41 LenKne: Thanks, bye
07:48:52 spsneo: Testbaudson, ok thanks
07:48:55 Testbaudson: thanks LenKne and spsneo
07:48:56 Testbaudson: bye
07:48:59 spsneo: Testbaudson, bye
08:35:06 spsneo: LenKne, are you there on gtalk?
08:35:35 LenKne: I'm here
08:35:59 spsneo: not on gtalk?
08:36:38 LenKne: No, have not used it
08:36:46 spsneo: LenKne, there are still few things to be clear about mapbender for me
08:37:03 spsneo: can you summarize about mapbender from your point of view
08:37:34 LenKne: How I use it?
08:37:40 spsneo: yup
08:38:14 LenKne: First, some background on my perspective of Mapbender. I've been a Mapbender users since March 2007 while working on a project that is bring mapping and GIS to K-16 education ( maps.umn.edu ). I work with Eco Education, a non-profit group which helps students explore their local environment. Eco Ed provides the curriculum, I provide the mapping tools ( Mapbender/MapServer/Postgres/PostGIS ). ...
08:38:16 LenKne: ...We also have three freshman level classes at the University using Mapbender to varying degrees. All told, we have about 10 Mapbender applications currently being used. I am the "über"
08:38:18 LenKne: admin, but there is a person at Eco Education who does a fair amount of administration as well.
08:38:37 LenKne: This text is from an earlier email
08:38:50 spsneo: yup i read that mail
08:39:10 LenKne: More information can be found at http://maps.umn.edu
08:39:11 sigq: Title: MIIM ( at maps.umn.edu )
08:39:19 spsneo: LenKne, well can u share the mapbender notes/lectures u had in ur univ
08:40:27 spsneo: LenKne, look i have understood whats WMS and WFS
08:40:32 spsneo: how does a mapbender work
08:40:51 spsneo: but I am still not pretty clear about users and admin thingy
08:41:15 LenKne: I've not had any classes on Mapbender
08:41:25 spsneo: LenKne, ok
08:41:33 LenKne: We do have wiki with notes about how we have implemented our Mapbender site
08:41:48 spsneo: can u send the url?
08:41:59 LenKne: It requires a U logon to access...
08:42:06 spsneo: oops
08:42:14 spsneo: wont it be possible for me to access
08:42:21 LenKne: I will ask if I can setup an account for you
08:42:31 spsneo: cool
08:42:35 spsneo: thank you very much
08:42:54 LenKne: Some of the pages are really a mess, but it does have some notes on how I setup Mapbender
08:43:17 spsneo: its ok
08:43:24 spsneo: I'll just go through it
08:43:26 LenKne: For me,the WMS and WFS took awhile to figure out.
08:43:33 spsneo: to get more knowledge of it
08:44:37 LenKne: I'm pulling together all of the current documentation on the wiki about users and groups and will diagram my understanding of it
08:44:47 spsneo: ok kool
11:18:16 seven: ping nimix
11:18:19 seven: Wake up.
11:18:36 seven: Please contact ur if at all possible. Danks.
11:20:56 nimix: seven:yap
11:21:08 seven: Excellent.
11:21:20 nimix: warum?
11:21:33 seven: Och, einfach so, er sehnt sich nach Dir.
11:21:42 nimix: achso
11:22:03 seven: Vielleicht TreeGDE oder irgendwas mit KML?
11:22:17 seven: er hätte ein, zwei Tage oder so.