#MAPBENDER IRC Log - 2008-07-14

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02:47:04 spsneo: Testbaudson: hello
03:15:51 Testbaudson: hi spsneo
03:16:11 spsneo: When are we going to discuss next half of the project
03:16:12 spsneo: ?
03:16:34 Testbaudson: now
03:18:03 Testbaudson: ok?
05:20:25 spsneo: Testbaudson: sorry
05:20:32 spsneo: I couldn't discuss that time
05:20:35 spsneo: are you free now
07:00:31 Testbaudson: 1700
07:00:36 Testbaudson: time for our weekly meeting
07:00:40 Testbaudson: roll call:
07:00:43 Testbaudson: Christoph
07:00:49 seven: Arnufl is here
07:00:54 nimix: nimix too
07:01:04 LenKne: Len
07:01:32 ur: uli
07:01:52 Testbaudson: Today's agenda
07:01:52 Testbaudson: http://www.mapbender.org/IRC_Meeting#Meeting_Agenda_for_July_14.2C_2008
07:01:54 sigq: Title: IRC Meeting - MapbenderWiki ( at www.mapbender.org )
07:02:08 Testbaudson: please add to the agenda if you have any suggestions
07:02:22 Testbaudson: ( 1 ) GSoC Q&A
07:02:41 Testbaudson: First of all, I sent the midterm evaluation
07:02:52 Testbaudson: this is basically a questionnaire...
07:03:10 Testbaudson: some questions regarding GSoC in general...
07:03:28 Testbaudson: and an evaluation of our two projects
07:03:47 Testbaudson: I stated we are satisfied with our students...
07:04:02 Testbaudson: so they will get their share of money soon
07:04:36 Testbaudson: That's all about the midterm evaluation
07:04:42 seven: Congratulations & thanks to you and our two GSoCcers!
07:04:47 ur: great, congratulations
07:05:02 Testbaudson: LenKne, do you have anything you want to discuss?
07:05:25 LenKne: Thanks to everyone for the help and support the first half of the summer...
07:05:38 LenKne: This is a fun project and learning much
07:06:03 LenKne: I have nothing to discuss today
07:06:37 LenKne: Questions for me?
07:07:00 nimix: is there already somethink eyecandy available, some demo or similar?
07:07:06 nimix: ; )
07:07:56 LenKne: The candy is still not quite done...
07:08:17 LenKne: but I will send out a link to a demo on Wednesday with where it is at...
07:08:41 LenKne: I broke it over the weekend and need to clean it up again :(
07:08:56 nimix: thank but not that important just want to ask
07:09:16 Testbaudson: Demos are always good because you get feedback...
07:09:31 Testbaudson: and this is good in order to keep your motivation up
07:09:32 seven: LenKne: If you are interested, I can let you have a peek into the geoportal.rlp.de application.
07:09:49 seven: it is a living implementation with lots of services and users.
07:09:55 LenKne: Agreed, I would like to demo for the feedback
07:10:05 LenKne: Yes, that would be helpful
07:10:19 seven: Just send me an email and I'll give you credentials.
07:10:42 LenKne: Will do, thanks
07:11:40 Testbaudson: if there are no other inquiries, let's move on
07:12:11 nimix: yes
07:12:20 Testbaudson: ( 2 ) General Rules of Conduct for PSC Members
07:12:32 Testbaudson: see http://www.mapbender.org/Category_talk:PSC
07:12:33 sigq: Title: Category talk:PSC - MapbenderWiki ( at www.mapbender.org )
07:12:38 Testbaudson: Arnulf added this
07:12:42 Testbaudson: please elaborate
07:13:08 seven: Please could you read that:
07:13:21 seven: http://www.mapbender.org/Category_talk:PSC
07:13:22 sigq: Title: Category talk:PSC - MapbenderWiki ( at www.mapbender.org )
07:13:25 seven: right now.
07:13:36 seven: It is straight forward - if their are no complaints
07:13:46 seven: we could go on and vote on it right away.
07:13:54 seven: Discussion?
07:14:32 : * Testbaudson has nothing to add
07:14:41 ur: uli too
07:15:12 seven: Good.
07:15:40 seven: This is not to kill any other discussion but I would go on to motion this now.
07:15:56 Testbaudson: seconded
07:15:57 Testbaudson: +1
07:16:01 ur: +1
07:16:12 seven: I motion to adopt the "General Rules of Conduct for PSC Members" as part of the repsonsibilities of the PSC members.
07:16:16 seven: Okok...
07:16:18 seven: +1
07:16:21 seven: :- )
07:16:59 seven: astroidex is not here, mandsch is missing, samsonite is missing
07:17:00 seven: hmmm.
07:17:04 seven: We have no quorum.
07:17:09 seven: Deferred to next meeting.
07:17:11 seven: Sorry.
07:17:23 seven: I will send an email to dev.
07:17:40 Testbaudson: It's hard to decide what to do with missing people if they don't show up to vote ;- )
07:19:04 Testbaudson: ok...
07:19:08 Testbaudson: ( 3 ) "Code over the fence" policy discussion ( Arnulf )
07:19:47 Testbaudson: seven?
07:19:55 seven: Yes.
07:20:08 seven: I receives a( nother ) phone call today with somebody
07:20:19 seven: who has hacked something in Mapbender
07:20:25 seven: probably Version 2.4.1
07:20:38 seven: and now wants to give the great invention back to the Mapbender core.
07:20:47 seven: Which is - principally - a good thing.
07:21:00 seven: But who is going to debug, diff, rewrite, whatever that code?
07:21:15 seven: So in order to get this streamlined we should add a section to the Wiki
07:21:23 seven: and describe how this can be done.
07:21:47 seven: I have some ideas bt I am not a coder - so I wondered whether one of the developers
07:21:56 seven: has a few ideas what we should write there.
07:21:59 : * seven is done.
07:22:42 seven: It must be short, concise, clear and we should place it in a prominent place on the Main Page.
07:22:59 seven: So that people cannot say that they did not find it...
07:23:00 seven: :- )
07:23:23 seven: That was all. Maybe I just have to do it myself...
07:23:23 Testbaudson: currently, there is a segment under "Development"
07:23:37 Testbaudson: with steps "How to contribute"
07:24:04 Testbaudson: this could be recycled
07:24:18 seven: Well - there it says: send your code to the developers.
07:24:22 seven: And then?
07:24:41 Testbaudson: if it's good, we add it...
07:24:43 nimix: maybe people should fill an enhancement trac ticket and append a patch...
07:25:18 seven: The problem might be that we are talking about non- or semi-developers.
07:25:33 seven: People who never used an SVN before.
07:25:49 Testbaudson: I think it's ok to send what you've got...
07:25:55 Testbaudson: if you can't add it yourself...
07:26:07 Testbaudson: but on the other hand, I can't guarantee it will be added
07:26:16 Testbaudson: to the trunk
07:26:35 seven: Maybe we should add some explanation as to why we are not happy about all code.
07:26:47 : * seven makes a note to think something up.
07:26:55 : * seven is done.
07:27:08 Testbaudson: see http://www.mapbender.org/Development_Process
07:27:09 sigq: Title: Types of contribution - MapbenderWiki ( at www.mapbender.org )
07:27:18 Testbaudson: sorry: http://www.mapbender.org/Development_Process#Development
07:27:19 sigq: Title: Types of contribution - MapbenderWiki ( at www.mapbender.org )
07:28:26 seven: OK, so maybe we just need to make it more prominent.
07:28:39 : * seven is not very happy with the Wiki findability lately.
07:28:42 Testbaudson: the wiki main page is still a mess
07:28:51 seven: Thats another way of putting it.
07:29:16 Testbaudson: ( at least we have a favicon )
07:29:29 seven: who did that?
07:29:32 seven: its ugly.
07:29:38 seven: sorry
07:29:51 : * Testbaudson is guilty
07:30:01 Testbaudson: it's just proof of concept
07:30:07 seven: lol
07:30:14 nimix: : )
07:30:28 seven: we need a logo, a web page redesign and somebody who is good at marketing
07:30:35 : * Testbaudson came along a fancy jQuery favicon generator and had to use it
07:30:43 : * seven is too few for all of these jobs...
07:31:03 seven: Use it on Bender
07:31:08 Testbaudson: I think we should come up with a profile of potential visitors
07:31:20 Testbaudson: and have a link ready for them
07:31:51 Testbaudson: usually, if people don't find that link, they're gone
07:32:03 seven: What link do you mean?
07:32:23 Testbaudson: the single link that gets my attention
07:32:33 Testbaudson: do you actually read web sites?
07:32:55 seven: You lost me. ???
07:33:05 : * Testbaudson rephrases
07:33:16 Testbaudson: We should determine user profiles...
07:33:22 Testbaudson: who visits our website?
07:33:31 Testbaudson: User looking for a bug fix
07:33:38 Testbaudson: Developer supplying some code
07:33:46 Testbaudson: Someone who wants to see a demo
07:33:47 Testbaudson: etc
07:34:03 Testbaudson: I don't expect them to read the front page...
07:34:09 Testbaudson: there should be max 10 links
07:34:19 Testbaudson: on the front page imho
07:34:46 : * Testbaudson vanishes in silence
07:34:56 nimix: thats right the time users try to find the answer is limited
07:35:34 Testbaudson: I guess it's not the "look what we've got" approach...
07:35:41 Testbaudson: but the "what do you want" approach
07:35:50 Testbaudson: that I'm after
07:36:08 seven: Good.
07:36:43 Testbaudson: currently, there are about 50 links on the front page...
07:37:03 Testbaudson: that is too much for me...
07:37:10 Testbaudson: ( but then again I'm an autist )
07:37:29 : * spsneo is late due to some network error
07:38:26 seven: Hi spsneo
07:38:32 spsneo: seven: hello
07:38:42 spsneo: nothing's going on here?
07:38:45 seven: we are curerntly thinking about hwo to redseign the Mapbender Wiki.
07:38:52 seven: that always ends in silence...
07:38:53 seven: :- )
07:39:10 : * spsneo is checking the logs
07:39:31 seven: Maybe I will have a burst of dreativity during vacation
07:39:42 : * seven will be off throughout August
07:39:50 seven: creativity
07:40:10 : * seven is not going to have much time until then
07:40:19 : * seven is done
07:40:32 : * Testbaudson is done
07:41:12 seven: Anything else?
07:41:22 seven: what about the open tickets?
07:41:32 seven: some seem to have no owner yet
07:41:44 : * Testbaudson will defer them
07:41:58 seven: What about MySQL? Anybody interested?
07:42:08 seven: Else we will have 2.5 rc 18 some day.
07:42:18 Testbaudson: we have the code from Mathias...
07:42:22 Testbaudson: I will look into it
07:42:26 spsneo: seven: I am interested in MySQL
07:42:40 spsneo: I will check out the open tickets when I am free
07:42:50 seven: spsneo: Cool. Lets see with what Testbaudson comes up with.
07:43:00 spsneo: ok
07:43:04 seven: Testbaudson: Maybe it is enough if you oversee the process?
07:43:28 Testbaudson: for now, it's ok
07:43:48 seven: Good. I am done.
07:43:52 : * seven leans back.
07:44:04 : * Testbaudson is done
07:44:21 seven: Motion to close the meeting.
07:44:29 Testbaudson: seconded
07:44:30 Testbaudson: +1
07:44:31 seven: +1
07:44:34 ur: +1
07:44:35 spsneo: +1
07:44:36 verena_: +1
07:44:37 LenKne: +1
07:45:02 spsneo: Testbaudson: can we discuss for few minutes ?
07:45:47 Testbaudson: spsneo: sure
07:46:27 spsneo: Testbaudson: So for the next half of the project we have to concentrate on updating file system
07:46:37 spsneo: Can you do one thing,
07:46:50 spsneo: mail me in detail regarding the current status,
07:46:56 spsneo: what all problems are being faced
07:47:07 spsneo: and.. what all are to be done
07:47:21 spsneo: I will check out the mail , go through it thoroughly
07:47:30 spsneo: and then we cnaq discuss it tomorrow
07:47:30 Testbaudson: I don't know all problems...
07:47:41 spsneo: As I will be aware regarding the subject
07:47:56 spsneo: and then we can have a healthy discussion
07:48:08 spsneo: Testbaudson: whatever you know
07:48:17 spsneo: is this way ok?
07:48:30 spsneo: or should we start discussing straight away
07:48:31 spsneo: ?
07:48:51 Testbaudson: Basically, there is not much to write about this...
07:49:04 spsneo: ok
07:49:05 Testbaudson: My only idea is this:
07:49:13 spsneo: lets talk about it straight now
07:49:34 Testbaudson: We need to determine if a Mapbender installation has been customized...
07:49:45 Testbaudson: so I thought about a checksum system
07:50:03 Testbaudson: each file gets a checksum
07:50:03 spsneo: ok
07:50:13 Testbaudson: and Mapbender comes with a list of all its files
07:50:15 spsneo: and if not modified .. just a regular update
07:50:22 spsneo: that means replacing old files
07:50:24 spsneo: right
07:50:26 spsneo: ?
07:50:28 Testbaudson: yes
07:50:35 Testbaudson: but before updating...
07:50:51 Testbaudson: the user needs to agree to update customized files
07:51:02 Testbaudson: as they might not work with the latest version
07:51:42 Testbaudson: we also have to think about files that have been deleted...
07:51:47 spsneo: and if installation has been customized? how would the update process proceed
07:51:47 Testbaudson: or added...
07:51:48 spsneo: ?
07:51:53 Testbaudson: not just files that have been updated
07:52:09 Testbaudson: the user would have to agree to the update....
07:52:23 Testbaudson: but this would overwrite the current files
07:52:29 Testbaudson: so he could cancel the update
07:52:31 Testbaudson: and make a backup
07:52:33 spsneo: in that case update will not gurantee the success
07:52:37 Testbaudson: and later merge it manually
07:52:52 Testbaudson: only death is guaranteed :- )
07:53:02 spsneo: hehe
07:53:04 Testbaudson: it's a best effort
07:54:40 Testbaudson: maybe we should do a backup up front...
07:54:51 Testbaudson: like zipping the old folder and storing it somewhere
07:55:04 Testbaudson: do you get my idea?
07:55:23 Testbaudson: I have not heard another idea but the checksum idea...
07:55:35 Testbaudson: so if you don't have a better idea, we could do this
07:55:47 Testbaudson: but please feel free to come up with something better
07:56:42 Testbaudson: spsneo?
07:56:44 spsneo: ya
07:56:55 Testbaudson: ok?
07:57:00 spsneo: ya
07:57:03 spsneo: I will check out
07:57:05 Testbaudson: or do you need more input?
07:57:15 spsneo: I will try to come up with best idea possible
07:57:35 Testbaudson: a very very good idea will do :- )
07:57:47 Testbaudson: thanks, let me know if you need help, ok?
07:57:52 Testbaudson: I'm off now, bye
07:57:56 spsneo: so, main aim is to determine whether
07:58:07 spsneo: the instatllation has been customized?
07:58:09 spsneo: right?
07:58:27 spsneo: and if it is customized.. it should give a warning..
07:58:37 Testbaudson: yes, and the update process itself...
07:58:44 Testbaudson: replacing old files with new files
07:58:46 spsneo: that the update will destroy ur customization
07:58:49 Testbaudson: etc
07:58:55 spsneo: yaa...
07:58:57 spsneo: one sec
07:59:00 Testbaudson: yes
07:59:09 spsneo: update process replacing old files with new files
07:59:16 spsneo: means ?
07:59:29 spsneo: user will enter the path of new mb files
07:59:34 spsneo: and the script will
07:59:44 spsneo: replace the old files
07:59:45 spsneo: is it?
07:59:49 Testbaudson: the user calls the update script,
07:59:58 Testbaudson: along with the path to the old installation
08:00:08 Testbaudson: after the check has been performed
08:00:12 Testbaudson: and the user agreed to update
08:00:16 Testbaudson: the files of the new mapbender
08:00:21 Testbaudson: need to be copied
08:00:25 spsneo: ok...
08:00:28 Testbaudson: to the path of the old installation
08:00:35 spsneo: ok
08:00:37 spsneo: fine
08:00:47 spsneo: so.. this script will also
08:00:50 Testbaudson: but remember, we somehow have to think about the conf file
08:00:53 spsneo: be executed from command line only
08:00:55 spsneo: right
08:00:56 spsneo: ?
08:01:00 spsneo: actually ya i
08:01:01 Testbaudson: yes, command line
08:01:11 spsneo: it should be the continuation of the last script
08:01:22 spsneo: so its ok now
08:01:27 Testbaudson: thanks
08:01:30 : * Testbaudson gotta go
08:01:34 Testbaudson: bye
08:01:37 spsneo: I will poke u whenever I feel like
08:01:38 spsneo: ok
08:01:40 spsneo: bye
08:01:41 Testbaudson: sure
08:01:42 spsneo: thanks
08:01:55 spsneo: happy evening!