| 08:48:23 | TylerM: | jmckenna: heya.. chatting in an hour right? |
| 08:48:32 | TylerM: | you got the files handy from last year? |
| 08:50:54 | jmckenna: | TylerM: yes meeting in 1 hour. no i don't have the files ready yet but i will try to dig something up for the meeting |
| 08:51:19 | TylerM: | we probably each have a copy somewhere... ; ) |
| 08:51:32 | jmckenna: | yup :( |
| 10:49:35 | jmckenna: | FrankW: i believe we must stick with ms4w for the 2008 workshops. i'm just not confident enough to use it right at this moment. will u accept me proposing this to the rest of the workshop committee? |
| 10:50:10 | FrankW: | jmckenna: you are suggesting we won't have OSGeo4W available on the workshop machines? |
| 10:50:24 | FrankW: | I won't be able to do my lab with just ms4w. |
| 10:51:19 | jmckenna: | ok. then if no is the answer will u accept having both osgeo4w and ms4w available on the machines? |
| 10:52:12 | FrankW: | of course, I can't argue against that, though I'm disappointed if you judge OSGeo4W not ready for mapserver type workshops. |
| 10:53:51 | TylerM: | Do the workshops that people have ready for MS4W have to be tweaked in some ways to work on osgeo4w? |
| 10:54:26 | TylerM: | maintaining paths, etc. from year to year has been a real lifesaver for our ms101 workshop |
| 10:54:36 | jmckenna: | yup. that is one factor: different packaging. another factor is how much testing has been done with both. |
| 10:55:02 | jmckenna: | yes it's time for path updates..and deadline is wed...etc etc so i am about to propose this |
| 10:55:40 | jmckenna: | limited time avail. and throw untested software into the mix? i am asking for trouble and stress. no? i am trying to limit the stress |
| 10:56:04 | TylerM: | I never even thought of osgeo4w as a possibility.. so as a workshop leader I'd be panicking if the enviro. changed :o |
| 10:56:40 | TylerM: | I'd say time to move ms101 to linux and then be done with it ; ) heh |
| 10:56:53 | jmckenna: | and as the guys making the workshop image ( graeme has told me to handle that osgeo4w/ms4w part ) i need to keep this stress to a min. |
| 10:57:38 | jmckenna: | as volunteer of all above that is where i'm coming from |
| 10:58:04 | TylerM: | I'm not up to speed on osgeo4w, but speaking purely from my own "less fuss" angle : ) |
| 10:58:07 | TylerM: | biab |
| 10:58:49 | jmckenna: | in the end you can have C:/ms4w and c:/osgeo4w and have no worries. |
| 10:59:09 | TylerM: | jmckenna: re: ftp site access... seems we're spinning wheels trying to find some way of using telascience for it.. |
| 10:59:32 | TylerM: | I'll dig a bit longer and FrankW may come up with some more thoughts, but a backup plan may be in order.. |
| 10:59:38 | TylerM: | so I'll look into a couple. |
| 10:59:55 | jmckenna: | i'd say. ( man my day has been 2010 foss4g, 2008 workshops, and dpatton says there is 2009 stuff to do...hard to do actual paid work! ) |
| 11:00:06 | jmckenna: | thank you |
| 11:01:12 | TylerM: | gah. i can imagine.. |
| 11:01:17 | TylerM: | 3 conferences at once.. unbelievable |
| 11:01:36 | TylerM: | i'm edging toward "ignore 2009" mode now ; ) |
| 11:01:45 | jmckenna: | : ) |
| 12:02:03 | FrankW: | Incubation meeting in 30 minutes: http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/IncCom_Meeting12 |
| 12:02:04 | sigq: | Title: IncCom Meeting12 - OSGeo Wiki ( at wiki.osgeo.org ) |
| 12:11:43 | FrankW: | mlucas: will you be able to make the incubation meeting? I'm a bit foggy on what is holding up OSSIM graduation. |
| 12:18:18 | FrankW: | mlucas: I see these two email messages from back in March about OSSIM graduations and then not much else: |
| 12:18:23 | FrankW: | http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/incubator/2008-March/000915.html |
| 12:18:24 | sigq: | Title: [OSSIM] Fwd: [Incubator] OSSIM Incubation Graduation ( at lists.osgeo.org ) |
| 12:18:30 | FrankW: | http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/incubator/2008-March/000910.html |
| 12:18:31 | sigq: | Title: [Incubator] OSSIM Incubation Graduation ( at lists.osgeo.org ) |
| 12:27:46 | CameronShorter: | FrankW, I notice that I'm on the agenda of the incubation meeting for legal review of projects. Do we have a reference to where this was discussed? I'm trying to remember the details. |
| 12:28:48 | CameronShorter: | I assume you are referring to get a Lawyer to review docs before incubation is complete? |
| 12:29:14 | FrankW: | CameronShorter: That item was on the agenda for the meeting for a long time, and I'm fuzzy on why. |
| 12:29:27 | FrankW: | But in the last meeting minutes I see "Requirements for legal support - particularly a required legal review by a laywer for each project before graduation - was discussed. It was decided to have CameronS prepare a proposal for how this would work, and to have the proposal reviewed and commented on by an appropriate lawyer as to usefulness, and likely cost." |
| 12:29:39 | FrankW: | I don't know if you prepared such a thing, but I don't believe I passed it on to a lawyer. |
| 12:29:53 | FrankW: | If we aren't ready to act on it, we may need to defer it. |
| 12:30:10 | CameronShorter: | Ah, I haven't prepared anything, sorry. |
| 12:30:21 | FrankW: | np |
| 12:31:19 | CameronShorter: | I'd like to be opportunistic and get a quick feeling on retiring projects too. |
| 12:31:28 | FrankW: | sure. |
| 12:32:06 | FrankW: | added to the agenda. |
| 12:33:07 | FrankW: | Ok folks, I'd like to call the incubation committee meeting to order: |
| 12:33:11 | FrankW: | http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/IncCom_Meeting12 |
| 12:33:12 | sigq: | Title: IncCom Meeting12 - OSGeo Wiki ( at wiki.osgeo.org ) |
| 12:33:20 | FrankW: | Could everyone here for the meeting sound off? |
| 12:33:25 | CameronShorter: | here |
| 12:34:24 | : | * FrankW sighs. |
| 12:34:50 | FrankW: | hobu? mlucas? danmo? crschmidt? |
| 12:34:57 | FrankW: | Anyone else here for the meeting? |
| 12:35:01 | mlucas: | mlucas here |
| 12:35:19 | mlucas: | just sat down... |
| 12:35:34 | FrankW: | cool |
| 12:35:42 | FrankW: | Schuyler? nhv? TylerM? |
| 12:36:09 | TylerM: | i can be here if you need me |
| 12:36:24 | CameronShorter: | Jody is coming |
| 12:36:38 | jgarnett: | afternoon |
| 12:36:47 | FrankW: | Steve Lime mentioned he has a conflicting meeting, but would try to come in after that if possible. |
| 12:36:50 | FrankW: | Hi jgarnett |
| 12:37:00 | FrankW: | Agenda: http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/IncCom_Meeting12#Agenda |
| 12:37:01 | sigq: | Title: IncCom Meeting12 - OSGeo Wiki ( at wiki.osgeo.org ) |
| 12:37:11 | FrankW: | First item, approve last meeting minutes: http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/IncCom_Meeting11 |
| 12:37:12 | sigq: | Title: IncCom Meeting11 - OSGeo Wiki ( at wiki.osgeo.org ) |
| 12:37:20 | FrankW: | any questions about those minutes? |
| 12:38:21 | : | * FrankW motions to approve the 11th meeting minutes. |
| 12:38:22 | FrankW: | +1 |
| 12:38:36 | CameronShorter: | +1 |
| 12:39:49 | : | * FrankW declares motion passed with a minimum of support, but no objections. |
| 12:40:02 | FrankW: | Next item: committee membership. |
| 12:40:12 | FrankW: | the agenda mentions we should add Jorge Sanz. |
| 12:40:32 | FrankW: | but I think as projects enter incubation we should be making their representative a member of the committee. |
| 12:40:55 | FrankW: | On that basis, I'd like to offer committee membership to PaulR ( GEOS ), Jorge Sanz ( gvSIG ) and Markus Lupp ( deegree ). |
| 12:41:01 | FrankW: | Anyone have thoughts on that? |
| 12:41:17 | FrankW: | Note, only formal members get a formal vote on incubation graduation/entrance, etc. |
| 12:41:18 | : | * danmo wakes up |
| 12:41:28 | : | * FrankW welcomes danmo to wakefulness. |
| 12:41:39 | TylerM: | good idea |
| 12:41:47 | FrankW: | Our current membership list is at: http://www.osgeo.org/incubator/index.html |
| 12:41:49 | sigq: | Title: Incubator | OSGeo.org ( at www.osgeo.org ) |
| 12:41:53 | CameronShorter: | Yes, any project going through incubation should have a member on the committee. |
| 12:42:18 | FrankW: | I was also thinking of crschmidt, and mloskot for membership since they have often partciipated in meetings. But they don't seem to be here today. |
| 12:42:20 | CameronShorter: | +1 for the 3 proposed people ( I'm assuming are the people put forward for their projects ). |
| 12:43:07 | FrankW: | OK, I motion to offer membership to PaulR, MarkusL, and JorgeS as well as to make it a policy of the committee that the project representative of any new project be offered membership in the committee when they enter incubation. |
| 12:43:15 | FrankW: | +1 |
| 12:43:22 | danmo: | are all three interested in being members of the committee... leading a project through incubation doesn't necessarily mean they want to be involved in IncCom for the long run... |
| 12:43:22 | jgarnett: | I like the idea ... |
| 12:43:23 | jgarnett: | +1 |
| 12:43:49 | mlucas: | Good idea, on that basis I should probably be added as well then. |
| 12:43:53 | FrankW: | danmo: well, that's why I said we would offer membership. We shouldn't consider them members if they don't want to be. |
| 12:44:10 | : | * FrankW ammends motion to include mlucas for membership - absolutely. |
| 12:44:15 | danmo: | +1 then |
| 12:44:25 | CameronShorter: | +1 |
| 12:44:40 | FrankW: | I was also thinking at some point I should go through the existing members and check that they are interested in continued membership. |
| 12:44:48 | FrankW: | But I think we can leave that for another time. |
| 12:45:07 | : | * FrankW declares motion passed. |
| 12:45:12 | FrankW: | mlucas: I assume you accept? |
| 12:45:16 | mlucas: | yep |
| 12:45:20 | mlucas: | +1 |
| 12:45:21 | : | * crschmidt looks at current list |
| 12:45:23 | FrankW: | cool |
| 12:45:36 | CameronShorter: | FrankW, we probably should have a process for retiring members of OSGeo committees. |
| 12:46:00 | FrankW: | CameronShorter: We have a process. They can be removed from a committee by a motion to the committee. |
| 12:46:03 | crschmidt: | I think it's unlikely that I would be a useful participant in the incubation committee. |
| 12:46:11 | FrankW: | I will say it is hard to have an automatic process. |
| 12:46:16 | FrankW: | crschmidt: ok |
| 12:46:20 | crschmidt: | I've essentially stopped paying attention to all incubating projects since OL graduated : ) |
| 12:46:23 | FrankW: | Still - don't hesitate to chime in at will. :- ) |
| 12:46:33 | crschmidt: | Oh, if I have words to say, have no doubt that I'll say them : ) |
| 12:46:33 | CameronShorter: | I'd suggest annually ( maybe after elections or similar ), ask committee members to opt out if they feel they are not contributing. |
| 12:46:50 | CameronShorter: | Make it a voluntary thing. |
| 12:46:55 | FrankW: | OK, next issue is reviewing the status of projects currently in incubation. |
| 12:47:18 | FrankW: | Perhaps we should first address OSSIM. |
| 12:47:27 | FrankW: | It was brought forward for graduation in February. |
| 12:47:46 | FrankW: | I raised a few concerns which were somewhat responded to, but I think off the incubation list. |
| 12:47:56 | FrankW: | But then things went quiet. |
| 12:48:15 | FrankW: | I provided links in the agenda to the three emails I was able to find on the topic in the list archives. |
| 12:49:09 | FrankW: | What do we need to get this discussion going again, and on the incubation list so we can all participate/ |
| 12:49:09 | FrankW: | ? |
| 12:49:20 | mlucas: | As I recall we tried to clean up some of the licensing and copyright references and also tried to formalize our PSC a little more. |
| 12:49:24 | FrankW: | ( I had really lost track of this till just this afternoon or I would have tried to restart things a while ago ) |
| 12:49:47 | vehrka: | afternoon |
| 12:49:53 | mlucas: | All of the key contributors live in the same city and meet for lunch every couple of weeks, wanted to try and push more of that out to the mailing list |
| 12:49:54 | FrankW: | mlucas: could you perhaps respond to my email http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/incubator/2008-March/000910.html on the incubator list? |
| 12:49:55 | sigq: | Title: [Incubator] OSSIM Incubation Graduation ( at lists.osgeo.org ) |
| 12:50:26 | mlucas: | will do, I think everyone got occupied and it dropped through the cracks |
| 12:50:41 | FrankW: | Right - that happens easily. |
| 12:51:06 | FrankW: | Doh, we lost vehrka already. |
| 12:51:33 | FrankW: | with regard to GEOS, I mentioned my position on that on the incubation list a day or two ago. |
| 12:51:38 | FrankW: | Anyone have questions? concerns? |
| 12:52:13 | FrankW: | welcome vehrka, are you here for the Incubation meeting? |
| 12:52:58 | CameronShorter: | FrankW, I'm having problems remembering all the projects and their status. |
| 12:53:06 | FrankW: | ok, next: MapServer. I think it is essentially ready to graduate, but I haven't heard much from it's mentor ( Chris Holmes ). If SteveLime makes it in this meeting we might discuss it in a bit more detail. |
| 12:53:19 | danmo: | I agree with waiting a couple of months to let the GEOS PSC demonstrate that they can operate smoothly and openly... as we did for other projects before |
| 12:53:21 | FrankW: | CameronShorter: we have five projects still in incubation listed at: http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Incubation_Committee |
| 12:53:22 | sigq: | Title: Incubation Committee - OSGeo Wiki ( at wiki.osgeo.org ) |
| 12:53:39 | vehrka: | eeeehhhh, nopes, just lurking arround ; ) but if I could help in something just whistle |
| 12:53:41 | FrankW: | MapServer, GEOS, gvSIG, deegree, and OSSIM. |
| 12:54:02 | danmo: | I wish I could speak for MapServer but I am a bit fuzzy on our incubation's status |
| 12:54:36 | FrankW: | Does anyone have anything to mention with regard to deegree or gvSIG? |
| 12:55:11 | FrankW: | I suspect gvSIG is in pretty good shape, though I'd be interested in learning more about openness of process and participation in any graduation recommendation. |
| 12:55:50 | FrankW: | jgarnett: did you have anything to mention with regard to deegree progress in incubation? |
| 12:55:58 | CameronShorter: | jgarnett_ are you able to talk about deegree? |
| 12:56:02 | jgarnett_: | I asked them last month |
| 12:56:09 | jgarnett_: | and they seem happy; but stalled. |
| 12:56:24 | FrankW: | Do they need support? Time? |
| 12:56:31 | jgarnett_: | other than confirming that I was not the cause of them stalling out I have not done much further. |
| 12:56:36 | jgarnett_: | I think they are just needing time. |
| 12:56:41 | FrankW: | ok, no problem. |
| 12:56:51 | jgarnett_: | ( I did check last month; I can check again this month and get back to the list ) |
| 12:56:56 | FrankW: | ok, that touches the projects in incubation. |
| 12:57:08 | FrankW: | next agenda item is to discuss pending applications. |
| 12:57:13 | FrankW: | http://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/query?status=new&status=assigned&status=reopened&component=Incubator&keywords=%7Eapplication&order=priority |
| 12:57:15 | sigq: | Title: Custom Query - OSGeo - Trac ( at trac.osgeo.org ) |
| 12:57:46 | CameronShorter: | FrankW, I'd suggest that we should ask incubating projects to give a 2 paragraph email status about their status before all incubation meetings. |
| 12:57:52 | FrankW: | My perception is that the GeoMOOSE, JVNMobileGIS and ORCHESTRA applications are somewhat moribund. We really need some sort of champion to get them going again. |
| 12:58:36 | FrankW: | CameronShorter: That is plausible, though i have a hard time remember to send out a reminder. |
| 12:58:44 | FrankW: | much less that. |
| 12:58:46 | CameronShorter: | : ) |
| 12:58:49 | FrankW: | But I'll try. |
| 12:59:11 | FrankW: | So, from a new project perspective, I'm most interested in discussing MetaCRS and STARSpan. |
| 12:59:20 | FrankW: | Do we have anyone here to speak on behalf of STARSpan? |
| 12:59:20 | CameronShorter: | Maybe add a checklist of things to do before meetings into the incom irc wiki. |
| 12:59:47 | FrankW: | maybe, but that presumes I'd think to look for the checklist. |
| 13:00:15 | FrankW: | Actually, it could sort of be a standard item on the agenda so then I'd see it. |
| 13:00:24 | CameronShorter: | ok |
| 13:00:53 | CameronShorter: | FrankW I assume you can talk to MetaCRS? |
| 13:01:00 | FrankW: | yes, I plan to do so. |
| 13:01:08 | FrankW: | Does anyone have any thoughts on STARSpan? |
| 13:01:33 | FrankW: | I think we had some email discussion a few weeks ago, and once concern was whether it was a substantial enough project in terms of developers and perhaps users to be a full OSGeo project. |
| 13:02:24 | FrankW: | lacking additional thoughts, I'd like to move on to the MetaCRS application. |
| 13:02:42 | FrankW: | I believe there were some reasonable concerns that MetaCRS wasn't really a project in our traditional sense. |
| 13:02:58 | jgarnett_: | I am reading about STARSSpan but have little by way of productive thoughts. |
| 13:03:02 | FrankW: | Instead it is a sort of frankenstein hodgepodge of loosely related projects. |
| 13:03:08 | CameronShorter: | StarSPAN does look like a good contender. |
| 13:03:38 | FrankW: | Do we have anyone who would like to dig into STARSpan somewhat deeper, with an eye towards possibly being a mentor? |
| 13:04:16 | FrankW: | I would note that currently ChrisH, RichardG, JodyG, FrankW and JeroenT are "active" mentors and not available to mentor new projects. |
| 13:04:26 | CameronShorter: | StarSpan seems to fill a niche, and seems to have a good a good community. |
| 13:05:03 | FrankW: | I've certainly heard good things from users about STARSpan before it applied for incubation. |
| 13:05:37 | CameronShorter: | I'm wary of taking on extra work as I'm focusing much of my spare energy to FOSS4G 2009. |
| 13:07:18 | FrankW: | pramsey: we are now discussing the MetaCRS application. I believe that you had some concerns that it wasn't really a project per-se, but rather a hodge-podge. |
| 13:07:23 | CameronShorter: | I'm also positive toward the MetaCRS project. I know many of the people involved and am confident the project has potential, and it fills a niche. |
| 13:07:51 | milovanderlinden: | Does anyone knows when ESRI and Autodesk joined the OGC? |
| 13:08:12 | pramsey: | right, if the javascript maintainer disappears, will the C maintainers of proj4 really be able to help someone add a patch? |
| 13:08:14 | pramsey: | and vice versa? |
| 13:08:28 | pramsey: | counting all the bits together as one "community" seems optimistic |
| 13:09:07 | FrankW: | pramsey: I agree. Have 5-6 commiters for MetaCRS doesn't mean that individual components wouldn't die if the only real maintainer of that portion left. |
| 13:09:42 | FrankW: | It is my hope that there is at least some potential for cross-maintenance, but realistically it won't be the same as having 5-6 developers on a single project. |
| 13:10:19 | CameronShorter: | FrankW, I assume the key thing you share is algorithms. They will be the same between all projects? |
| 13:10:23 | FrankW: | Although, you might be able to say the same about specific components of some other projects. |
| 13:10:52 | FrankW: | right ( to some extent ). there should be a fair amount of transferrability of knowledge about coordinate systems, numerical processes and so forth. |
| 13:11:11 | FrankW: | And I hope to shar increasing amounts of dictionary data files between projects over time. |
| 13:11:17 | FrankW: | shar->share |
| 13:11:38 | CameronShorter: | Is there the potential to automatically generate the algorithms into various languages during a build process? |
| 13:11:57 | FrankW: | CameronShorter: while that is theoretically possible, I don't forsee it happening. |
| 13:12:14 | FrankW: | I'd add that so far MetaCRS only is pursuing libraries implemented in C/C++ and JavaScript. |
| 13:12:52 | FrankW: | ok, is there anyone willing to step forward as a candidate mentor for MetaCRS? |
| 13:13:04 | CameronShorter: | Is the data dictionary used as one codebase for all languages? |
| 13:13:34 | FrankW: | CameronShorter: currently the different projects mostly have different dictionaries, but there are good prospects of increasing the sharing. |
| 13:13:36 | CameronShorter: | And what percentage of the code is in the data dictionary? ( how much is shared? ) |
| 13:13:54 | FrankW: | I will note that OGR/PROJ.4/PostGIS/libgeotiff all share "federated" or related dictionaries generated from one tool chain now. |
| 13:14:22 | FrankW: | I can't express it as a percentage, but managing the dictionaries is a pretty big part of the coordinate system library stuff. |
| 13:14:26 | FrankW: | ( and the supporting grid shift files which is similar ). |
| 13:14:55 | CameronShorter: | And will the JS use the same dictionary? |
| 13:15:11 | FrankW: | I think there is some potential for that. |
| 13:15:33 | FrankW: | I'm not sure they generate the JS dictionaries now ... I *think* it is derived from the PROJ.4 definitions ( which come via OGR/libgeotiff ). |
| 13:16:14 | CameronShorter: | Yes, it used to be converted by hand, I'm not sure if Mike has improved that. |
| 13:16:25 | FrankW: | I don't know either. |
| 13:16:55 | FrankW: | No volunteers for MetaCRS mentor? |
| 13:17:06 | CameronShorter: | Based on the commonality of the dictionary, I think this project is worth supporting. ( But I'm not volunteering, sorry ) |
| 13:17:20 | jgarnett_: | I am hoping to see java projects involved; and sharing definitions and testing conformance. |
| 13:17:29 | jgarnett_: | but since I am not working at that level all I can do is encourage. |
| 13:17:55 | FrankW: | jgarnett_: yes, even though the java implmentation will likely remain part of Geotools, I certainly hope that Martin, etc will participate in MetaCRS to exchange knowledge. |
| 13:18:22 | FrankW: | Likewise the OSSIM guys, deegree guys, and so forth, who maintain coordinate systems code. |
| 13:18:35 | FrankW: | Without a mentor-volunteer the whole thing is a non-starter. |
| 13:18:45 | danmo: | I was hoping I could skip a turn at mentoring... but I can take it if no-one will |
| 13:19:19 | CameronShorter: | <cheer>Go Danmo</cheer> |
| 13:19:24 | FrankW: | danmo is my hero1 |
| 13:19:25 | : | * danmo slaps himself |
| 13:19:26 | FrankW: | danmo is my hero! |
| 13:20:11 | FrankW: | Ok, any objections to my raising a motion to the mailing list to bring MetaCRS into incubation with danmo as mentor? |
| 13:20:29 | nhv: | the OSSIM stuff is pretty much a wrapper around http://earth-info.nima.mil/GandG/geotrans/ and probably won't change |
| 13:20:30 | sigq: | Title: NGA: ( U ) GEOTRANS 2.4.1 Geographic Translator ( UNCLASSIFIED ) ( at earth-info.nima.mil ) |
| 13:20:33 | jgarnett_: | sounds good |
| 13:20:59 | FrankW: | Before we move on, any other thoughts on the pending incubation applications? |
| 13:21:19 | FrankW: | I'd really love someone to investigate JVNMobileGIS and see what they think. |
| 13:21:31 | FrankW: | But this should ideally be someone with a Java background. |
| 13:21:36 | jgarnett_: | I know you have asked me FrankW but I have not had a chance |
| 13:21:48 | jgarnett_: | perhaps on my next long plane trip ... |
| 13:22:32 | CameronShorter: | I'd really like to see JVNMobileGIS and gvSIG to collaborate rather than splinter. |
| 13:24:00 | CameronShorter: | cholmes has joined us and might be able to give us a status update of Mapserver graduation. |
| 13:24:16 | CameronShorter: | ( asked earlier ) |
| 13:25:26 | cholmes: | I unfortunately haven't caught up with them in awhile. I mean, the community is obviously super strong, the hold up has always been the nuts and bolts of the legal review. |
| 13:25:36 | FrankW: | I would certainly be pleased to see JVNMobileGIS work as part of an existing java project if that makes sense and can be encouraged. |
| 13:26:26 | FrankW: | Steve might make it in yet to speak a bit to that. I know a lot of work was done on the legal review in the last 2-3 months. |
| 13:26:38 | FrankW: | ok, next topic: retiring projects. |
| 13:26:42 | FrankW: | CameronShorter: care to start this out? |
| 13:26:59 | CameronShorter: | Right, Mapbuilder recently voted to retire. |
| 13:27:24 | CameronShorter: | Which brings up a lot of questions about how we handle this, which I'd like to run past a vote of this committee. |
| 13:28:26 | CameronShorter: | 1. The incubatioon committee should be responsible for accepting retiring projects status ( as part of the full project lifecycle ) |
| 13:28:28 | CameronShorter: | +1 |
| 13:30:05 | CameronShorter: | 2. We should create a status of "Retired" projects on the OSGeo wiki and update web pages accordingly. |
| 13:30:09 | FrankW: | I'm not sure that we need to accept "retired" status, but I think it would be good for us to provide some guidelines to projects for responsible end-of-life handling. |
| 13:30:32 | CameronShorter: | 3. OSGeo should continue to provide minimal support for retired projects. Eg: Hosting web pages, svn etc. ( It provides valuable history ). |
| 13:31:22 | CameronShorter: | Yes, guidelines is a good idea, assuming there are sufficient people left in the project to follow the guidelines. |
| 13:31:33 | FrankW: | I agree with us continuing to provide hosting resources more or less indefinately. |
| 13:32:17 | FrankW: | Would you be willing to write up some candidate guidelines? |
| 13:32:25 | CameronShorter: | Yes, sure. |
| 13:32:57 | FrankW: | Cool, I think we can discuss them by email, and hopefully pass them. |
| 13:33:10 | CameronShorter: | I'll see if I can find an appropriate wiki page to link from. |
| 13:33:22 | FrankW: | Well, I'd start linking them from the incubation page. |
| 13:33:28 | CameronShorter: | I need to get kids ready for school now. Thanks for everyone's time. |
| 13:33:34 | FrankW: | ok, thanks. |
| 13:33:58 | FrankW: | The last agenda item was the legal review topic, but CameronShorter and I neglected to follow up on it after the last meeting so no action today. |
| 13:34:10 | FrankW: | Anything else from anyone before we close? |
| 13:35:09 | FrankW: | ok, then I motion to close the incubation meeting. |
| 13:35:14 | danmo: | +1 |
| 13:35:19 | FrankW: | +1 |
| 13:36:02 | jgarnett_: | +1 |
| 13:38:32 | danmo: | Hi sdlime... the IncCom meeting just ended less than 5 minutes ago |
| 13:38:53 | sdlime: | figures, I had a meeting with my boss scheduled right over this... |
| 13:38:57 | FrankW: | sdlime: what is our mapserver incubation situation ? Are we ready for a motion to graduate? |
| 13:39:21 | sdlime: | I think so. I'd like our mentor's opinion I guess |
| 13:39:50 | sdlime: | I don't know what else we'd really need to do. |
| 13:40:38 | danmo: | Should we formalize our contributor agreement or is it enought to continuereferring to the committers guideline as we do for each new committ4er? |
| 13:41:20 | danmo: | I just don't know if there is a legal need for something more formal than what we currently do |
| 13:41:35 | sdlime: | Isn't the end result the same, an "I obey" email from the new committer? |
| 13:41:51 | sdlime: | Are any projects going to signed documents? |
| 13:42:07 | : | * milovanderlinden raises a hand |
| 13:42:36 | danmo: | I guess my ( small ) concern is that the only ref to the "I obey" is in mailing list archives... and that may be hard to track down in 10 years from now |
| 13:42:37 | FrankW: | Currently FDO, and MApguide are using signed contributor agreements. GeoTools is using a copyright assignment document. |
| 13:43:07 | FrankW: | I don't see a need for more than we do now for MapServer with regard to qualifying committers. |
| 13:43:25 | FrankW: | milovanderlinden: what's up? |
| 13:43:28 | milovanderlinden: | I am setting up a small presentation on the history of Open GIS; does anyone know when the larger commercial companies ( like ESRI or Autodesk f.i. ) joined the OGC? I allready have Microsoft->1997 and Bentley->1996 but I cannot find any others.. |
| 13:43:35 | milovanderlinden: | Oops |
| 13:43:59 | milovanderlinden: | My first question was; am I allowed to ask a second question or is the meeting still in progress? |
| 13:44:08 | FrankW: | milovanderlinden: I believe ESRI was pretty active in the development of the simple features for SQL standard - the first non-abstract spec from OGC. So they must have been in fairly early. |
| 13:44:16 | FrankW: | milovanderlinden: the meeting is over. |
| 13:44:20 | milovanderlinden: | phew |
| 13:44:48 | FrankW: | sdlime: If chris could do some quick review, we could potentially complete a motion for mapserver graduation by friday's board meeting. |
| 13:45:10 | FrankW: | But the motion would have to be raised by tomorrow I think. |
| 13:45:16 | danmo: | What about committers who never wrote an "I obey" since they got their commit rights before the rules were set? Do we need an official statement from them to make sure they're all cleared? |
| 13:45:24 | milovanderlinden: | the simple features where defined in 1997; so ESRI might have joined somewhere around 1995, 1996? |
| 13:45:26 | sdlime: | FrankW: I'll drop him a note asap. |
| 13:45:50 | FrankW: | danmo: yes, it would be reasonable to ask all existing committers to review the guidelines, and agree to them. |
| 13:46:06 | FrankW: | That's what we did with GDAL - and I just dropped anyone who didn't respond under the assumption they weren't too interested anymore anyways. |
| 13:46:36 | sdlime: | We can start that process now then... I have a list on the website of those who contributed long ago... |
| 13:48:18 | danmo: | I think that would be great. But FrankW, I guess you were hoping for a motion for MapServer to graduate before next week's board meeting? This little formality of getting all committers to agree to the guidelines should not block this motion of we're ready |
| 13:48:33 | danmo: | *if we're ready |
| 13:48:49 | sdlime: | really need Chris to make that call I think |
| 13:48:58 | danmo: | ping cholmes |
| 13:50:07 | FrankW: | The board meeting is this friday. But it isn't critical to get it done this week, it would just be nice if there is no compelling reason not to. |
| 13:50:39 | danmo: | We usually leave 1 week for review and vote, so we're too late already |
| 13:50:41 | danmo: | :( |
| 13:50:57 | sdlime: | after 2+ years what's another week... |
| 13:51:14 | FrankW: | Well, I'd be willing to compress that down to 3-4 days. |
| 13:51:19 | danmo: | We could still get the motion going and pass the vote before FOSS4G... then the board approval will just be a formality |
| 13:53:22 | sdlime: | i suppose we need a way to track who as say "I obey" huh, the COMMITERS file in SVN ok? |
| 13:54:09 | danmo: | https://www.osgeo.org/cgi-bin/auth/ldap_group.py?group=mapserver gives you the current list of SVN committers |
| 13:54:40 | danmo: | I guess that would be a good chance to sort out the COMMITTERS file... and organize it in 2 sections: active and retired committers |
| 13:55:32 | sdlime: | Yup, we can make sure it reflects the developer list I started as part of incubation way back. |
| 13:55:58 | danmo: | It may not be a bad thing to ask everyone to say "I obey" again ... and anyone who doesn't respond goes into the retired list and have their SVN rights removed |
| 13:57:22 | sdlime: | shall I draft a nore and run it by you for comment before sending? |
| 13:57:25 | sdlime: | ? |
| 13:57:44 | FrankW: | A nore? |
| 13:57:59 | FrankW: | note? I imagine you could just go ahead and send it. |
| 13:58:06 | danmo: | You could run it be me and/or Frank if you want, but I think you can go straight to the list too |
| 13:59:45 | sdlime: | even if someone doesn't want to commit code any more it would be nice to get confirmation that their past contributions we ok, or is that not necessary? |
| 14:00:13 | FrankW: | It is not considered critical. |
| 14:00:18 | danmo: | that would be good for those who never formally confirmed it, but some may not be following the -dev list any more |
| 14:01:12 | sdlime: | I have emails for many but those might not work any more either |
| 14:08:52 | FrankW: | meeting minutes now at: http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/IncCom_Meeting12 |
| 14:08:53 | sigq: | Title: IncCom Meeting12 - OSGeo Wiki ( at wiki.osgeo.org ) |
| 14:12:48 | CameronShorter: | danmo, sdlime, for your "I obey" email, I suggest you keep a link to the archived response in your list of contributors. I didn't for mapbuilder, and regretted it later as it would be time consuming to recreate. |
| 14:13:56 | sdlime: | CameronShorter: Thanks, good idea, I will... |
| 14:14:17 | sdlime: | I'll dig up those we already have on the list now as well. |
| 14:17:44 | : | * FrankW sees that Mark Lucas was already listed as an incubation committee member. |
| 14:46:04 | CameronShorter: | FrankW, Mark Leslie and I were wondering whether we could start uploading LiveCD images to an OSGeo server. |
| 14:46:30 | FrankW: | TylerM is configuring the server now. |
| 14:46:42 | CameronShorter: | I should ask TylerM? |
| 14:46:54 | FrankW: | There should be an announcement with details by no later than Wednesday. |
| 14:46:56 | TylerM: | heh.. just configuring ftp right now |
| 14:47:39 | TylerM: | so, yes, please wait for the announcement |
| 14:47:43 | CameronShorter: | ok, TylerM, how do you feel about us setting up a liveCD on an OSGeo server somewhere? |
| 14:48:10 | TylerM: | heh - this is a different question frankw : ) |
| 14:48:12 | FrankW: | Ah, I was thinking it was specifically for the foss4g workshops |
| 14:48:20 | FrankW: | You could host it on download.osgeo.org. |
| 14:48:33 | FrankW: | CameronShorter: do you already have an account on upload.osgeo.org? |
| 14:48:42 | CameronShorter: | Mark and our team have managed to get a Java stack working and it is looking promising to get something simple running by 2008. |
| 14:49:01 | CameronShorter: | I have an account on mapbuilder.osgeo.org |
| 14:49:06 | CameronShorter: | not sure if that is the same. |
| 14:49:46 | CameronShorter: | yes, seems I do have an account. |
| 14:50:24 | FrankW: | mapbuilder.osgeo.org is not the same as upload.osgeo.org as far as I can tell. |
| 14:50:43 | FrankW: | And I don't see an account for you on upload.osgeo.org, though it could be coming in via the telascience ldap. |
| 14:50:44 | CameronShorter: | Can we get an account set up for Mark Leslie too? I'll ask him to put in a request ticket for it. |
| 14:51:14 | CameronShorter: | ah - it works. |
| 14:51:17 | FrankW: | Is it inconvenient for you to do the uploading? |
| 14:51:35 | FrankW: | So there is already one "livedvd" living in /osgeo/download/livedvd. |
| 14:51:53 | FrankW: | If you have sudo access, you should create a parallel directory with some sort of appropriate name, and put it there. |
| 14:51:56 | CameronShorter: | I can do it, if there is an issue. I try to farm out responsibilties ( and the fun projects ) as much as possible. |
| 14:52:00 | FrankW: | If you don't have sudo, let me know and I'll add it. |
| 14:52:21 | FrankW: | You could also sudo /usr/sbin/adduser and create Mark an account if you want. |
| 14:52:27 | CameronShorter: | yes, I have sudo access. |
| 14:52:37 | CameronShorter: | ok |
| 14:52:48 | FrankW: | Just make sure to use "chfn" to set some sensible information for the account ( email address, full name, project affiliation ). |
| 14:53:10 | CameronShorter: | Sure. Do we have a process for uploading files? |
| 14:53:23 | CameronShorter: | Like where I should put these files, then advertise them. |
| 14:55:37 | FrankW: | stuff to go on the download server needs to end up under /osgeo/download. |
| 14:55:40 | FrankW: | Then it is live. |
| 14:55:48 | CameronShorter: | ok |
| 14:56:10 | CameronShorter: | Do we need to be mindful of bandwidth, file size etc? |
| 14:56:52 | FrankW: | The bandwidth is "free" as it is provided by telascience and I suppose SDSU. |
| 14:57:14 | FrankW: | We have roughly 75GB of space left on the server, so one or two livecd/dvd images isnt too bad. |
| 14:57:17 | FrankW: | But lets not go crazy. |
| 14:57:19 | FrankW: | :- ) |
| 14:57:34 | FrankW: | I'd add everything under /osgeo/download is rsync backed-up to osgeo2. |
| 14:57:52 | mleslie: | We are likely going to make a couple of releases over the next couple weeks. |
| 14:57:56 | CameronShorter: | and osgeo2 has the disk space to handle this? |
| 14:58:09 | FrankW: | CameronShorter: well,within reason yes. |
| 14:58:28 | FrankW: | If you do several releases, you should consider cleaning up older releases since they are quite large. |
| 14:58:29 | mleslie: | Is it worth removing the old ones, keeping only the latest version on downloads? |
| 14:58:40 | FrankW: | The download server is documented at: http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Download_Server |
| 14:58:41 | sigq: | Title: Download Server - OSGeo Wiki ( at wiki.osgeo.org ) |
| 14:59:12 | mleslie: | Excellent. Almost like you've done this before : ) |
| 15:00:46 | CameronShorter: | I'm hoping the liveCD project to grow to become quite popular, and I'm wary of deleting old images ( so that users can roll back to a version that worked ). |
| 15:01:14 | FrankW: | Well, keeping 2-3 versions would be fine, but I'm a bit nervous about having too many. |
| 15:01:15 | mleslie: | We'll keep copies locally so we can revisit if it becomes an issue. |
| 15:01:52 | CameronShorter: | Right, I'm wondering whether we should mirror the site on sourceforge or similar? |
| 15:03:11 | CameronShorter: | For the moment, a local backup should be sufficient. |
| 17:19:12 | : | * seven will follow up on the ORCHESTRA application. |
| 17:19:37 | : | * seven appologizes for not being at the IncCom meeting... |
| 17:25:32 | FrankW: | seven: no problem. But the ORCHESTRA application is a bit hard for us to wrap our heads around still, and will need some sort of proponent to go anywhere. |
| 17:26:24 | FrankW: | Will you be creating an agenda for Friday soon? I'd like to add at least one incubation item to it so I don't forget. |
| 17:26:53 | FrankW: | Also, MarkR phoned this morning and will provide a clean version of the MOU for broader review very shortly - presumably tomorrow. |
| 17:51:16 | wildintellect: | @seen bwoodall |
| 17:51:17 | sigq: | wildintellect: bwoodall was last seen in #osgeo 1 week, 0 days, 4 hours, 33 minutes, and 16 seconds ago: <bwoodall> sounds nice |
| 17:55:09 | wildintellect: | TylerM, been meaning to ask you - since my friends keep bugging me, how would we go about getting a box of osgeo lapel buttons |
| 17:55:21 | seven: | FrankW: I am currently working with them to get them into OSOR. Looks good. |
| 17:55:55 | : | * seven looks at the time and decides it is time to take a nap... |
| 17:57:31 | : | * spatialguru presses your snooze button |
| 19:19:32 | bwoodall: | howdy wildintellect |
| 19:21:33 | bwoodall: | ping wildintellect |
| 19:23:15 | bwoodall: | wildintellect: I'll be up there ( UC Davis ) tomorrow |
| 19:24:04 | bwoodall: | Social Sciences Building |
| 19:25:33 | bwoodall: | Room 80 table #19 |
| 19:26:57 | bwoodall: | the "Share Fair" event is from 5:45pm to 7:30pm ( Setup at 5:15pm ) |
| 19:28:42 | wildintellect: | bwoodall, what time do you want help to arrive 5:30? |
| 19:28:57 | bwoodall: | sounds great |
| 19:29:18 | wildintellect: | I'll let everyone here know |
| 19:29:27 | bwoodall: | thank you |
| 19:30:05 | bwoodall: | they ( UCCE ) will have table for us |
| 19:30:31 | bwoodall: | having the flyers would be great |
| 19:45:25 | spatialguru: | hey guys bwoodall wildintellect - what you got for flyers? |
| 19:45:56 | spatialguru: | ugh gotta run |
| 19:46:01 | bwoodall: | bye |
| 19:46:38 | bwoodall: | the flyers are from this? spring |
| 20:20:25 | wildintellect: | yes |
| 20:20:54 | wildintellect: | they're the leftovers from tabling at the CGS meeting |