| 00:01:03 | TylerM: | well, it's 1am for me.. guess i'll give up waiting to find jeff mckenna :S |
| 00:01:23 | TylerM: | to see if he wants me to buzz to help with the workshop I abandoned him with ;- ) |
| 00:01:35 | stvn: | : ) |
| 00:01:55 | TylerM: | since it's half over, i'm guessing he either, slept in or has survived so far : ) |
| 00:02:18 | stvn: | gues so |
| 00:03:05 | TylerM: | have a good meeting there folks.. looking forward to hearing all about .. somehow.. : ) |
| 00:03:42 | stvn: | thanks, good night |
| 00:04:27 | jsanz: | cu TylerM |
| 00:04:36 | TylerM: | hasta luego! |
| 03:31:27 | milovanderlinden: | Hi all! How is the FOSS4G getting along? |
| 03:48:28 | stvn: | hi milo, slowly starting now |
| 03:48:41 | stvn: | the main opening is coming up |
| 03:48:48 | crschmidt: | he's gone |
| 03:49:08 | stvn: | hi crschmidt |
| 03:53:47 | ominoverde: | hi guys, please send some live comments during the sessions |
| 03:58:05 | crschmidt: | i'm doubting the internet will hold up well enough to do so. |
| 04:04:11 | Schuyler: | ominoverde: you didn't sell that laptop, did you? :( |
| 04:04:27 | ominoverde: | Schuyler: not yet :- ) |
| 04:04:42 | ominoverde: | I'm waiting for something convincing to buy instead |
| 04:05:09 | : | * stvn sees internet has returned in cape town |
| 04:05:15 | Schuyler: | but! a ticket to Cape Town! |
| 04:05:27 | ominoverde: | hehe, not really |
| 04:05:28 | Schuyler: | anyway you will miss my funny lightning talk |
| 04:05:30 | ominoverde: | did you? |
| 04:05:39 | ominoverde: | damn, that's a pity |
| 04:05:55 | : | * stvn says that with this speed we will miss it as well schuyler ; ) |
| 04:05:59 | Schuyler: | perhaps someone will make a video of the session |
| 04:06:08 | ominoverde: | Schuyler: I hope so |
| 04:06:26 | ominoverde: | poor internet connection? |
| 04:12:20 | crschmidt: | gavin is explaining things about what is going on during the conference. |
| 04:12:49 | ominoverde: | any lion roaring? |
| 04:13:37 | crschmidt: | not that i'm aware of |
| 04:26:36 | : | * crschmidt uploads pictures from GeoDango workshop |
| 04:28:34 | crschmidt: | lots of cape town advertisements going on now |
| 04:36:40 | ajturner_: | Arnulf said "Corporate Identity"? shouldn't that be "Organizational Identity"? |
| 04:46:45 | mkl: | pass the hat for mick! |
| 04:47:23 | Schuyler: | srsly |
| 04:48:53 | ominoverde: | ? |
| 04:48:55 | : | * stvn has passed ajturner s message to arnulf |
| 04:50:22 | crschmidt: | ominoverde: GISSA was explaining a bit of how the conference profits are being used |
| 04:50:55 | ominoverde: | thx, chris, is it ethical? |
| 04:51:06 | : | * crschmidt has no opinion |
| 04:51:20 | ominoverde: | :- ) |
| 04:51:23 | stvn: | gissa, osgeo and gis education in SA ( 3 way split ) |
| 04:52:00 | crschmidt: | I will say that per hour of available presentations, I pay something like an order of magnitude less for FOSS4G than I do for Where 2.0, if I go |
| 04:53:36 | mkl: | we already know where 2.0 is for profit. foss4g is news |
| 04:54:07 | mkl: | party render from the Hout Bay mapping party yesterday |
| 04:54:08 | mkl: | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66UPhwx-U8Q |
| 04:54:09 | sigq: | Title: YouTube - FOSS4G Hout Bay Mapping Party ( at www.youtube.com ) |
| 04:54:41 | crschmidt: | mkl: how is that news? |
| 04:54:43 | ominoverde: | cool mikel, thx |
| 04:55:01 | : | * Schuyler yawns |
| 04:55:12 | Schuyler: | nice one, Mikel |
| 04:55:49 | Schuyler: | crschmidt: you need to teach this dude the 6x6 rule |
| 04:55:55 | stvn: | finds the blue-grading rather interesting |
| 04:56:06 | crschmidt: | no one believes in the 6x6 rule |
| 04:56:10 | Schuyler: | cholmesie |
| 04:56:18 | Schuyler: | I believe in it! |
| 04:56:29 | Schuyler: | I try to adhere to the 6x1 rule |
| 04:56:33 | stvn: | has a very limited number of words on his slides |
| 04:56:43 | stvn: | wonders what the 6x6 rule is |
| 04:56:53 | mkl: | well there are no maps of africa to show, right?.... |
| 04:57:01 | crschmidt: | i'm kinda wondering why I'm sitting through this stuff, to be honest. I mean, I appreciate that the point of teaching us all about the problems in developing nations, but to be honest, that's not really why I come to foss4g |
| 04:57:09 | Schuyler: | bwahahaha |
| 04:57:46 | Schuyler: | what does he mean by "available"? |
| 04:57:53 | Schuyler: | can I download and reuse them? |
| 04:58:09 | ominoverde: | ask for licence, Schuyler |
| 04:58:17 | Schuyler: | that's what my lightning talk is about |
| 04:58:31 | ominoverde: | good |
| 04:58:49 | tbowden: | excellent! Someone needs to shake things up. |
| 04:58:57 | stvn: | mine is about death, so that'll set a nice example |
| 04:59:06 | stvn: | schuyler is in the end |
| 04:59:15 | tbowden: | Managers shouldn't be given more than 5 mins |
| 04:59:21 | cholmes: | when do lightning talks start? |
| 04:59:23 | stvn: | : ) |
| 04:59:26 | ominoverde: | hehe |
| 04:59:26 | tbowden: | after the break |
| 04:59:27 | vheurteaux_: | data for the central governmental control of territory---like the metric system |
| 04:59:57 | tbowden: | metadata. same old problem |
| 05:00:12 | tbowden: | does he have a new solution? |
| 05:00:14 | cholmes: | how much longer to the break? |
| 05:00:22 | tbowden: | too long |
| 05:00:24 | stvn: | 'more effort' |
| 05:00:25 | : | * cholmes has sat through _way_ to many talks like this. |
| 05:00:30 | crschmidt: | break is supposed to be now |
| 05:00:35 | tbowden: | slept through too many |
| 05:00:39 | cholmes: | :( |
| 05:03:03 | Schuyler: | why is the PPT version of my slides 10x the file size of the ODP version? |
| 05:03:22 | tbowden: | Gavin, don't give it to him! |
| 05:03:28 | ajturner: | because Bill Gates doesn't like you Schuyler |
| 05:03:31 | ajturner: | he told me so |
| 05:03:45 | crschmidt: | Schuyler: The ppt may be embedding your images into the file |
| 05:03:46 | Schuyler: | figures |
| 05:03:46 | ajturner: | I bet it's all the Animations too |
| 05:03:50 | crschmidt: | while ODP uses a reference or something |
| 05:03:52 | Schuyler: | no images |
| 05:03:56 | crschmidt: | ah |
| 05:04:00 | crschmidt: | because bill gates doesn't like you |
| 05:04:22 | mkl: | thanks gavin |
| 05:04:40 | stvn: | dscovers that the break is planned at 15.30 |
| 05:05:39 | : | * ominoverde going out for a walk in madrid. have fun guys! |
| 05:06:09 | stvn: | nice an applause before the presentation starts |
| 05:06:31 | tbowden: | At least he had the sense to go with OO with this crowd |
| 05:06:45 | stvn: | indeed |
| 05:07:08 | stvn: | it is more compatible than ppt for neweer ppt <evil grin> |
| 05:08:54 | tbowden: | Online updated texts? why not? |
| 05:09:07 | tbowden: | much more sense than paper texts |
| 05:09:14 | stvn: | says that not having computers make live harder |
| 05:09:19 | stvn: | life |
| 05:09:37 | tbowden: | true, but limited print runs as needed |
| 05:09:45 | tbowden: | keeps users updated |
| 05:09:52 | stvn: | says that the dutch situation regarding to GIS education isn't that much better |
| 05:10:00 | tbowden: | we need to put together material |
| 05:10:09 | tbowden: | that can be mixed and matched as needed |
| 05:10:25 | stvn: | will plug www.edugis.nl to the south africans ( requires internet though ) |
| 05:10:29 | tbowden: | make using it the path of least resistance for teaching institiutions |
| 05:10:30 | mkl: | absolutely .. including some fun activities! |
| 05:11:40 | tbowden: | live disk could be used as the basis of a live edu disk with teaching materials on it |
| 05:12:17 | stvn: | says that data is an issue, you want preferably local data for GIS-education |
| 05:12:52 | stvn: | it is much more fun to use GIS around school than about some boring village called new york |
| 05:13:04 | tbowden: | hmmm. Most get away with US data because it's free, but local data is much better |
| 05:13:58 | tbowden: | maybe leading to OSM contributors if training uses local data to spark the imagination |
| 05:14:13 | stvn: | was thinking along same lines |
| 05:14:31 | tbowden: | get em young! |
| 05:14:58 | tbowden: | expose them to freedom early! |
| 05:15:07 | stvn: | thinks the OSM guys should come with ways where you don't need GPS |
| 05:15:54 | ajturner: | stvn - don't need GPS for what? |
| 05:16:06 | stvn: | mapping streets n stuff |
| 05:16:13 | tbowden: | OSM data collection. No idea how you would do that though |
| 05:16:26 | ajturner: | tbowden: Potlatch in browser |
| 05:16:31 | stvn: | knows you can draw streets upon tyahoo images |
| 05:16:33 | ajturner: | using Yahoo aerial imagery |
| 05:16:44 | tbowden: | everyone has a mobile, get gps units in them |
| 05:16:46 | ajturner: | any WMS in JOSM |
| 05:16:57 | ajturner: | tbowden: there are GPS in most/many phones in US |
| 05:17:05 | ajturner: | but much more expensive, and less pervasive |
| 05:17:12 | tbowden: | coming to the rest of the world eventually |
| 05:17:19 | tbowden: | give it time |
| 05:17:20 | : | * ajturner knows people doing mapping w/ children in Swaziland using Android phones |
| 05:17:31 | ajturner: | well, will when android comes out : ) |
| 05:17:53 | tbowden: | pity olpc don't have gps |
| 05:18:00 | stvn: | says break |
| 05:18:02 | ajturner: | tbowden: pity OLPC isn't |
| 05:18:09 | tbowden: | hmmm. |
| 05:20:18 | tbowden: | Must have better slide management for the agm |
| 05:20:51 | crschmidt: | tbowden: Better to just ban slides : ) |
| 05:20:59 | tbowden: | love to if I could |
| 05:21:10 | crschmidt: | from AGM, I think we can for the most part |
| 05:21:12 | tbowden: | makes people think more about what they are saying |
| 05:21:40 | stvn: | thinks we should turn speeches/talks to musicals no slides there ; ) |
| 05:22:04 | tbowden: | oh, you don't want to hear me sing |
| 05:22:19 | : | * crschmidt likes picture of Daniel: http://flickr.com/photos/crschmidt/2898029565/ |
| 05:22:36 | stvn: | is quite sure a lot of people don't want to sing either, so that'll make the day much shorter : ) |
| 05:22:57 | mkl: | my perspective is put on |
| 05:23:14 | tbowden: | crschmidt: nice! |
| 05:23:51 | tbowden: | *manager warning* Turning an important topic to mush |
| 05:24:11 | : | * crschmidt hasn't been able to read anything other than the headline on any slides yet |
| 05:27:03 | tbowden: | rule of thumb: if it takes more than 3 seconds to read the slide, it's too complex |
| 05:27:19 | crschmidt: | This slide isn't *that* bad |
| 05:27:27 | crschmidt: | but it's like, the best one I've seen :p |
| 05:27:43 | crschmidt: | Of course, I'm not paying that much attention, to be frank |
| 05:27:45 | tbowden: | average is much better than the previous set |
| 05:28:08 | tbowden: | trying to pay attention, but he's doing his best to stop me |
| 05:29:01 | tbowden: | says me who often doesn't speak well anyway |
| 05:32:43 | tbowden: | good |
| 06:27:30 | tbowden: | Mapbuilder obituary. Interesting for me to hear about this. |
| 06:27:47 | tomkralidis: | RIP mapbuilder |
| 06:28:24 | crschmidt: | Short obituary: configuring your entire web application via XML especially if your entire mechanism for creating your web application is via XSLT : ) |
| 06:28:43 | crschmidt: | er, stick an 'is bad' in there somewher : ) |
| 06:28:52 | tbowden: | ah, that changes things |
| 06:30:11 | tbowden: | Well done. |
| 06:30:25 | : | * crschmidt agees |
| 06:30:26 | tbowden: | Best EOL I've seen |
| 06:30:47 | tbowden: | live install. Interesting! |
| 06:31:39 | crschmidt: | Frank giving osgeo4w chat while Jeff installs it on stage |
| 06:32:46 | crschmidt: | explains that osgeo4w is a single environment for 'many of these gis packages' |
| 06:32:49 | rajsingh: | where's FOSS4OSX??? |
| 06:33:04 | tbowden: | one day raj! |
| 06:33:11 | tomkralidis: | rajsingh: +1 |
| 06:33:25 | crschmidt: | rajsingh: KyngChaos binaries do that |
| 06:33:55 | rajsingh: | yeah I use that but it still takes an hour to get it up and running |
| 06:34:06 | tbowden: | not 5 mins eh? |
| 06:34:25 | tbowden: | fastest install I've seen |
| 06:34:34 | tbowden: | nice crash though |
| 06:35:30 | crschmidt: | ( emo for gmap/mapserver failed due to some kinf o lack of python-mapscript ) |
| 06:35:34 | tbowden: | looks like a sort of gui apt-get for windows |
| 06:36:01 | nhv: | it is a modified Cygwin installer |
| 06:36:03 | crschmidt: | yeah, it's based on the cygwin binary management stuff |
| 06:36:48 | nhv: | cygwin uses it for binary and source packages |
| 06:45:34 | tbowden: | How strong is the wireless down the front? Good here at the back... |
| 06:45:46 | crschmidt: | It was fine for me earlier back there |
| 06:46:15 | crschmidt: | Someone who lists their major accomplishment for a year as "Established governance structure" seems like they might be missing something. |
| 06:46:24 | tbowden: | ha! |
| 06:46:54 | tbowden: | but that's how bureaucracies opperate |
| 06:47:41 | mkl: | http://www.web4dev.org |
| 06:47:43 | sigq: | Title: Main Page - Web4dev.mepemepe.com ( at www.web4dev.org ) |
| 06:48:07 | crschmidt: | tbowden: Yeah, just one of those things that reminds me I'm glad I don't work for a bueracracy |
| 06:48:13 | crschmidt: | These lightning talks have beeoing really well |
| 06:48:23 | crschmidt: | been going |
| 06:48:36 | darkblue_B: | mkl: hello from California.. remember Green Maps :- ) |
| 06:49:02 | crschmidt: | hah. That's an OpenLayers map |
| 06:49:26 | tbowden: | I like this bloke! |
| 06:49:30 | tbowden: | nice presentation |
| 06:49:31 | crschmidt: | yah |
| 06:49:34 | crschmidt: | needs to speak into the mike |
| 06:50:02 | tbowden: | He understands his audience |
| 06:50:09 | mkl: | darkblue_B: of course! who's that? |
| 06:50:39 | tbowden: | looking it up... Swiss bloke |
| 06:52:54 | crschmidt: | That was a good one |
| 06:57:22 | tbowden: | good to see people are getting cc |
| 06:59:04 | crschmidt: | arnulf giving a lightning talk |
| 07:02:13 | darkblue_B: | mkl: I met wth NY Wendy Brawer and Tom when they were here, they spoke well of their meeting with you |
| 07:03:33 | : | * crschmidt isn't sure what irc is |
| 07:03:38 | tbowden: | lol |
| 07:04:37 | ajturner: | there's a Roar! |
| 07:04:39 | crschmidt: | he's at five minutes now, for the record |
| 07:04:45 | tbowden: | does he know we're backchanelling him? |
| 07:04:50 | tbowden: | on irc |
| 07:05:01 | nhv: | I am sure he is |
| 07:06:30 | tbowden: | good job! |
| 07:07:37 | ajturner: | ooh,TLA's as Title |
| 07:07:48 | mkl: | ouch, standards org dis! |
| 07:07:49 | crschmidt: | OSGeo isn't aTLA! |
| 07:08:05 | tbowden: | but MOU is |
| 07:08:33 | ajturner: | say it... "The FOSS Love" |
| 07:10:00 | crschmidt: | bullshit |
| 07:10:06 | ajturner: | well, 6 people can read the OGC document |
| 07:10:21 | crschmidt: | no, 6 people who aren't employed by organizations can |
| 07:10:36 | tbowden: | so no complaints from the rest of us eh? Thinks not so. |
| 07:10:56 | tbowden: | no we'll all get woken up! |
| 07:11:26 | tbowden: | now |
| 07:16:11 | tbowden: | best yet |
| 07:16:24 | mkl: | woo, warm up ed |
| 07:16:52 | tbowden: | ed knows he's being irc'd. Will be interesting to see what he says |
| 07:17:37 | tbowden: | questions for Ed Parsons. Any from outside? |
| 07:18:07 | crschmidt: | hm |
| 07:18:13 | crschmidt: | what's the best place to upload Schuyler's video? |
| 07:18:52 | bitner: | vid of the presentations? |
| 07:19:46 | mkl: | yet |
| 07:19:51 | darkblue_B: | Ed Parsons? convergence of GeoData.. hard to say not seeing what he said already |
| 07:20:03 | crschmidt: | bitner: just the ones I care about |
| 07:20:30 | tbowden: | true. we need streaming vids for Sydney next year. Love to find a way to do it |
| 07:20:31 | : | * crschmidt doesn't have a very big SD card in his phone |
| 07:20:47 | bitner: | ah vid of schuyler, not vid from schuyler |
| 07:21:03 | darkblue_B: | TeleAtlas is gettig the entire roadways of N America each day from TomTom users.. private geoData is now unquestionably better than govt data |
| 07:21:15 | darkblue_B: | EU 1x 4 days |
| 07:21:50 | bitner: | crschmidt: if you figure place out ( is youtube good enough ), post links |
| 07:22:03 | darkblue_B: | EU required the data is "available"..but what does that really mean? |
| 07:22:21 | : | * crschmidt tries to figure out if Ed Parsons just addressed him with regard to IRC |
| 07:22:29 | tbowden: | yup |
| 07:22:29 | : | * crschmidt wasn't really paying that much attention |
| 07:22:39 | tbowden: | he wants your irc q's later |
| 07:22:40 | mkl: | Ed sees all |
| 07:22:46 | crschmidt: | gotcha |
| 07:22:58 | tbowden: | he was trying to follow irc but his wifi crapped out |
| 07:23:00 | Schuyler: | rather, his satellites se all |
| 07:23:02 | Schuyler: | ( see |
| 07:23:14 | : | * bitner puts on tinfoil hat |
| 07:23:35 | Schuyler: | *see |
| 07:23:41 | Schuyler: | argh, lag |
| 07:25:02 | Schuyler: | did I put you all to sleep? |
| 07:25:06 | crschmidt: | not at all |
| 07:25:10 | tbowden: | no, best yet |
| 07:25:22 | crschmidt: | i was amused at 2min mark when you accelerated by a factor of 3 : ) |
| 07:25:30 | Schuyler: | aw thx : ) |
| 07:25:41 | tbowden: | but still understandable. That's a real skill |
| 07:25:45 | Schuyler: | um yeah : ) I didn't pace that particularly well |
| 07:25:52 | crschmidt: | It turned out quite well |
| 07:25:59 | : | * crschmidt curses vimeo for depending on flash for uploading |
| 07:26:07 | crschmidt: | why doesn't HTML have a decent asynch upload system? |
| 07:26:15 | tbowden: | touched on topics we're working on for Sydney |
| 07:26:15 | : | * Schuyler curses flash generally |
| 07:26:46 | crschmidt: | Schuyler: still, for video, it's kind of the only thing that exists with any reasonableness on the web |
| 07:26:51 | Schuyler: | hm battery threatening to die |
| 07:26:53 | tbowden: | actually hammered the topic to be fair |
| 07:27:04 | Schuyler: | crschmidt: I know. look at Joost versus Hulu. |
| 07:27:04 | tbowden: | well hammered |
| 07:27:11 | crschmidt: | the java ogg stuff is not really much better |
| 07:27:11 | Schuyler: | w00t |
| 07:27:25 | Schuyler: | no higher praise could be asked for |
| 07:27:33 | Schuyler: | afk, power |
| 07:27:40 | crschmidt: | heh. this is metacarta's entire business pitch |
| 07:28:22 | crschmidt: | "Searching for hotels with victoria in the text sucks. Searching for hotels in the map is way better!" |
| 07:28:37 | crschmidt: | ( and it is entirely true; just funny to hear our pitch coming out of ed's mouth ) |
| 07:29:47 | crschmidt: | the mashups aspect is a place that MetaCarta has totally failed at despite Schuyler + my's best efforts |
| 07:30:09 | tbowden: | mashups is about good enough gis |
| 07:30:35 | crschmidt: | one of the original OL developers was one of the original google maps deconstructors |
| 07:30:48 | : | * crschmidt wonders if there's a pentominoes browser for Google Maps |
| 07:30:52 | crschmidt: | Or a fractal browser |
| 07:31:04 | ajturner: | a good example of why slippy maps are just static maps digitized, but not really hyper* |
| 07:31:35 | ajturner: | so these are all great mashups - but more examples of how data is being pulled in and kept private. Where is the KML/Shapefile of the visualized data? |
| 07:31:48 | mkl: | maybe we need to hack google map maker to get them to open up |
| 07:31:57 | tbowden: | universal means sharing, both ways |
| 07:32:07 | tbowden: | not one way |
| 07:32:11 | tbowden: | like now |
| 07:32:17 | tbowden: | wrt the license |
| 07:32:34 | mkl: | let's set up a seperate OSM instance, and set it to copy from google maps imagery and make the traces open |
| 07:32:43 | crschmidt: | mkl: Hacking mapmaker doens't seem to me to have any more value than just taking data from the maps tiles |
| 07:32:47 | crschmidt: | ( or the API ) |
| 07:33:08 | crschmidt: | which you just said; sorry |
| 07:33:29 | mkl: | and then get the friendly google take down notice |
| 07:33:38 | crschmidt: | and then what? |
| 07:33:43 | : | * nhv wonders how long "give us all your data so you can search/see it on a map" will fly |
| 07:34:01 | crschmidt: | nhv: Schuyler's talk was "That shouldn't fly; stop letting it" |
| 07:34:10 | : | * nhv applauds |
| 07:34:17 | mkl: | and then ... um drink? |
| 07:34:45 | crschmidt: | mkl: I mean, getting a takedown from Google for doing things that they don't like is pretty easy : ) |
| 07:35:06 | mkl: | it clearly illustrates the difference between mapmaker and open data |
| 07:35:29 | crschmidt: | mkl: enh, I'm not sure I buy that nayone would see it any differently that doesn't already |
| 07:35:32 | crschmidt: | but maybe I'm just cynical |
| 07:35:54 | tbowden: | 50cm resolution for entire globe? That's going to be interesting |
| 07:36:07 | crschmidt: | For a cost, I'm sure |
| 07:36:27 | crschmidt: | the only reason Google can do it with the whole globe for Digital Globe is because they got a contract before Digital Globe knew what the were getting into, I bet ; ) |
| 07:36:37 | crschmidt: | geoeye has the benefit of knowing better |
| 07:37:25 | tbowden: | me wants the help girl! |
| 07:37:40 | tbowden: | with every computer |
| 07:38:28 | crschmidt: | heh. 3 buslengths to the inch |
| 07:38:41 | tbowden: | non metric I think |
| 07:41:26 | tbowden: | mapmaker. Why not just slurp OSM? That's universal. Google aren't universal really wrt data licensing |
| 07:41:38 | crschmidt: | enh |
| 07:41:58 | crschmidt: | OSM's license is actively hostile towards users like Google |
| 07:42:09 | tbowden: | yes, that's the point |
| 07:42:10 | crschmidt: | ( Fair enough, given their ridiculously shitty attidue towards making data available ) |
| 07:42:21 | crschmidt: | I'm not sure I understand the question then... |
| 07:42:22 | mkl: | google's business priorities are hostile towards projects like OSM |
| 07:42:29 | crschmidt: | mkl: yep |
| 07:42:30 | crschmidt: | They can't legally slurp OSM |
| 07:42:39 | tbowden: | but they claim to want to be universal |
| 07:42:40 | mkl: | debatable |
| 07:42:54 | tbowden: | they have to give and take to be universal |
| 07:42:57 | crschmidt: | mkl: they choose not to follow practices that would allow them to legally slurp OSM |
| 07:43:03 | crschmidt: | tbowden: They don't care about universal |
| 07:43:06 | crschmidt: | they just tell people they do |
| 07:43:07 | mkl: | crschmidt: yup |
| 07:43:11 | tbowden: | but they're claiming it |
| 07:43:20 | crschmidt: | Sure. They also claim that they do no evil |
| 07:43:22 | tbowden: | they must be called on it |
| 07:43:23 | mkl: | http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=12.9762&lon=77.6033&zoom=12&layers=B000FTF |
| 07:43:24 | sigq: | Title: OpenStreetMap ( at www.openstreetmap.org ) |
| 07:43:28 | ajturner: | sow hat's the concise question to Ed? |
| 07:43:44 | mkl: | "creating products" |
| 07:44:10 | : | * crschmidt shurgs |
| 07:44:17 | crschmidt: | Calling Google on their bullshit has never gotten me naywhere |
| 07:44:21 | crschmidt: | heh, heh |
| 07:44:37 | tbowden: | hmm. almost channelling irc |
| 07:44:44 | crschmidt: | well, it's an obvious question |
| 07:45:32 | crschmidt: | "We're not far enough to actually release the data" |
| 07:45:37 | tbowden: | they need to keep working on it |
| 07:45:41 | : | * crschmidt shakes his head |
| 07:45:47 | mkl: | sigh |
| 07:45:47 | crschmidt: | I'll believe it when I see it |
| 07:46:05 | crschmidt: | This problem isn't hard to solve. |
| 07:46:53 | crschmidt: | We're not asking Google to make the data available in OSM, or even frickin use OSM. Just publish the data under an open license. |
| 07:47:09 | mkl: | yup |
| 07:47:13 | tbowden: | who owns the tomtom data upgrade? Bloody robbery if you ask me |
| 07:47:28 | tbowden: | crschmidt: agree completely |
| 07:47:28 | jlivni: | robbery? you didnt read the eula? |
| 07:47:35 | crschmidt: | And you don't even have to *do that* |
| 07:47:42 | crschmidt: | All you have to do is make the dman imagery you bought available to OSM |
| 07:47:59 | tbowden: | no, haven't read the eula. Assuming the worst |
| 07:48:07 | crschmidt: | And you don't even have to do *that*: Just make a map with all the tiles that you frickin steal and create based on state agencies |
| 07:48:14 | crschmidt: | Because all that stuff is free at the source |
| 07:48:19 | jlivni: | at least make the imagery being given to you ( eg by usgs/local govts ) available |
| 07:48:22 | jlivni: | oh - yeah what he said |
| 07:48:23 | crschmidt: | Right |
| 07:48:37 | tbowden: | yes, but the aggregation is not free |
| 07:48:47 | crschmidt: | They can seperate the aggregation |
| 07:49:10 | crschmidt: | There's no way that there are more significant technical problems doing that than serving the main set of tiles |
| 07:49:20 | crschmidt: | they have to be able to seperate their tilesets -- they're already doing that with MapMaker data |
| 07:50:32 | nhv: | problem as I see it is most everyone jumped on the GM,GE bandwagon and are making those their main dissemination platforms |
| 07:50:50 | crschmidt: | WEll, there are no other options that exist |
| 07:50:58 | nhv: | I can't fault Google's business plan of aggregating data |
| 07:51:07 | nhv: | it is *good* business for them |
| 07:51:20 | crschmidt: | Aggregation in general is,clearly, yeah |
| 07:51:27 | tbowden: | yes, but we need to protect *our* data. |
| 07:51:53 | tbowden: | in terms of keeping free access to the raw stuff |
| 07:51:57 | nhv: | true but using google is like the apple in the garden |
| 07:53:01 | nhv: | free government raw data at least in the us is still available from source |
| 07:53:26 | crschmidt: | at the federal level, sure |
| 07:53:35 | nhv: | and most states |
| 07:53:36 | tbowden: | but it's an issue for the rest of world |
| 07:54:40 | crschmidt: | SDE's video should be available on vimeo in 15 minutes |
| 07:55:05 | bitner: | cool, thanks crschmidt |
| 07:55:24 | nhv: | ya thx for doing that |
| 07:55:39 | crschmidt: | blah blah KML OGC |
| 07:55:46 | crschmidt: | Yeah, that's great, except you don't publish any of your own data |
| 07:55:59 | crschmidt: | "look, everyone! Now your data is free! ours isn't though. Joke's on you!" |
| 07:56:56 | crschmidt: | "stovepiping of data has hurt GIS" |
| 07:57:02 | tbowden: | they're creating a new type of stovepipe |
| 07:57:14 | crschmidt: | Amazing how they can know all the reasons that they shouldn't do exactly what they're doing |
| 07:57:19 | ticheler_: | Esay to forget that it IS useful to properly document data... |
| 07:57:20 | crschmidt: | and keep doing it! so fun |
| 07:57:21 | ticheler_: | easy |
| 07:57:23 | mkl: | kml isn't really an open standard |
| 07:57:23 | ticheler_: | then, make sure search engines can index them |
| 07:57:37 | mkl: | the G has veto, absolute |
| 07:58:03 | : | * crschmidt doesn't even think that really matters |
| 07:58:14 | ticheler_: | I can't yet see a government official generate KML and manage that for all its geospatial content |
| 07:58:16 | mkl: | he's hypnotising us! |
| 07:58:49 | crschmidt: | mkl: heh, heh |
| 07:59:45 | crschmidt: | bah, the only reason that Google is collecting streetviews is so they can stop paying TelaAtlas 5 years from now when they've driven all the street and perfected the street sign extractor |
| 08:00:03 | tbowden: | kml as an open standard is fine, but it's the data licensing that matters. |
| 08:00:16 | tbowden: | crschmidt: good thought |
| 08:00:53 | crschmidt: | it's not really like there's anything questionable here; Google does the things that it does so it can crush the people it partners with |
| 08:01:27 | tomkralidis: | ticheler_: there are many government activities in Canada publishing KML |
| 08:01:41 | jlivni: | i would imagine nokia's is a more popular mobile platform to progam for than android right now... |
| 08:01:43 | crschmidt: | tomkralidis: publishing KML and *creating data* in KML are different |
| 08:01:56 | crschmidt: | tomkralidis: do they seriously store their data only as KML? |
| 08:02:24 | ticheler_: | tomkralidis: do they have some management tools for them? |
| 08:02:24 | mkl: | http://fakeedparsons.blogspot.com/2008/07/what-map-maker-is-is-not-draft.html |
| 08:02:26 | sigq: | Title: Fake Ed Parsons: What Map Maker is /is not [DRAFT] ( at fakeedparsons.blogspot.com ) |
| 08:02:35 | tbowden: | nope. kml is presentation & interchange |
| 08:02:37 | tomkralidis: | not store, just publish. publishing requires creating KML, but I know what you mean : ) |
| 08:02:48 | crschmidt: | so, coming to the end of the talk |
| 08:02:56 | ticheler_: | In the end they _have_ a catalog |
| 08:03:22 | tomkralidis: | ticheler_: what kind of catalog? |
| 08:03:36 | ticheler_: | a catalog of geospatial data |
| 08:03:42 | crschmidt: | Do we wnat to come to a consensus of what to ask? |
| 08:03:51 | tomkralidis: | ticheler_: re mgmt tools I doubt it. |
| 08:04:11 | tomkralidis: | ticheler_: what kind of access to the geospatial data catalog? CSW ( wishing ) ? |
| 08:04:29 | tbowden: | just the licensing issue |
| 08:04:34 | ticheler_: | well, if you maintain a chunck of KMl files you have one |
| 08:04:49 | ticheler_: | not vary manageable most likely, but it's a catalog |
| 08:04:54 | crschmidt: | tbowden: well, he's said "I can't talk about that" |
| 08:04:55 | ticheler_: | very |
| 08:05:08 | tbowden: | but we should push anyway. Keep it on the burner |
| 08:05:10 | crschmidt: | I mean, I can try and phrase something but I expect he'll just say "we're working on doing better" |
| 08:05:33 | ticheler_: | crschmidt: yes, but good to ask anyway! |
| 08:05:43 | : | * crschmidt shrugs |
| 08:05:47 | crschmidt: | someone else can ask if they care |
| 08:05:54 | crschmidt: | I'm tired of asking questions and platitudes |
| 08:06:04 | crschmidt: | and getting platitudes* |
| 08:06:17 | tbowden: | do they have a roving microphone? |
| 08:06:20 | tbowden: | no. |
| 08:06:46 | ticheler_: | yes |
| 08:06:54 | crschmidt: | yeah, gavin has one |
| 08:07:14 | tbowden: | I'll bite |
| 08:07:53 | ticheler_: | arnulf will too |
| 08:08:06 | tbowden: | and with more style methinks |
| 08:08:46 | crschmidt: | yeah, but he's biting on the wrong topics |
| 08:09:36 | ticheler_: | crschmidt: you bite on the other topic |
| 08:10:42 | : | * crschmidt shrugs |
| 08:11:07 | crschmidt: | I wanted to get him to say it, but I don't relaly have anywhere else to go |
| 08:13:22 | ticheler_: | tbowden: well phrased! |
| 08:13:30 | : | * crschmidt wonders what the 'hundreds of millions' number comes from |
| 08:13:50 | ajturner: | Ask about Public GeoData that is "given" or shared to google, google improves, but doesn't return back to provider, or continue out to public? |
| 08:13:56 | ajturner: | e.g. Transit, nat'l mapping agencies in Africa, etc. |
| 08:14:23 | ajturner: | oh - is Google going to champion open-data licenses? |
| 08:14:28 | mkl: | open database license |
| 08:14:30 | crschmidt: | I highly doubt it |
| 08:14:40 | crschmidt: | please not a CC license on geodata |
| 08:14:48 | crschmidt: | it's just frickin wrong |
| 08:15:03 | crschmidt: | geodata is not a creative work, damnit! |
| 08:15:45 | ajturner: | crschmidt - right, CC is a crutch to refer to open data licenses |
| 08:16:04 | crschmidt: | My battery may die before my vimeo video is done; http://www.vimeo.com/1841244 is the URL ( says 1 more minute ) |
| 08:16:05 | sigq: | Title: Schuyler's Lightning Talk on Vimeo ( at www.vimeo.com ) |
| 08:16:30 | jlivni: | how come not yt? |
| 08:16:41 | jlivni: | er, youtube, that is? |
| 08:17:00 | crschmidt: | jlivni: their transcoding stuff tends to make videos that are relatively low quality become completely unwathcable |
| 08:17:11 | jlivni: | ok, i thought you were blacklisting ed parson related companies : ) |
| 08:17:14 | crschmidt: | heh |
| 08:17:23 | jlivni: | ( yt does have hd upload option ) |
| 08:17:29 | crschmidt: | I think the file was actually too big for upload to youtube |
| 08:17:35 | crschmidt: | they have a 100MB upload limit, right? |
| 08:17:39 | crschmidt: | Or maybe via the web |
| 08:17:41 | jlivni: | no idea |
| 08:19:09 | crschmidt: | anyway |
| 08:19:11 | crschmidt: | drinky time |
| 08:22:40 | bitner: | cheers |
| 08:35:09 | bitner: | Schuyler: Rock On! ( lightning talk ) |
| 08:42:09 | ominoverde: | :-O |
| 08:42:41 | bitner: | hey lorenzo -- you lucky enough to be in SA? |
| 08:46:14 | ominoverde: | bitner: luky enough to be in Madrid and to come back to Barcelona tomorrow :- ) |
| 08:46:34 | : | * bitner wouldn't mind being in Spain either |
| 08:46:41 | ominoverde: | but luky enough to see Schuyler 's movie post by crschmidt |
| 08:47:33 | : | * bitner sent Schuyler an email to egg him into taking over GeoData Comm chair |
| 10:08:34 | espen2: | testing |
| 10:10:49 | TylerM: | hi espen2 |
| 10:50:24 | : | * stvn decides not to go outside afterall and wishes those at quay 4 much fun |
| 10:55:45 | crschmidt: | have a good night |
| 11:04:29 | crschmidt: | so the movie came out okay? |
| 11:06:20 | tomkralidis: | crschmidt: yup -- thanks! |
| 11:06:44 | crschmidt: | i have one from arnulf too |
| 11:07:00 | : | * crschmidt heads out to Quay 4 for more beer |
| 11:07:27 | tomkralidis: | drink first, post later : ) |
| 12:08:45 | seven: | FrankW is offline. |
| 12:08:47 | seven: | Hehe. |
| 12:09:13 | seven: | FrankW: please publish the Board Meeting minutes, there have been complaints from the members. |
| 12:15:44 | bitner: | seven: they are online |
| 12:15:53 | bitner: | http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Board_Meeting_FOSS4G2008 |
| 12:15:54 | sigq: | Title: Board Meeting FOSS4G2008 - OSGeo Wiki ( at wiki.osgeo.org ) |
| 13:09:01 | seven: | @seen ajturner |
| 13:09:01 | sigq: | seven: ajturner was last seen in #osgeo 4 hours, 53 minutes, and 15 seconds ago: <ajturner> crschmidt - right, CC is a crutch to refer to open data licenses |
| 13:45:21 | seven: | bitner: Thanks for the link. Do you think the level of detail suffices? We should ask Jeff, he was asking for it. |
| 13:46:52 | bitner: | if that level of detail hit all the relevant points, I think it's fine |
| 13:47:02 | bitner: | heck, we know how many sodas you each got |
| 13:47:15 | bitner: | what could be more important than that? |
| 17:57:30 | CameronShorter: | pramsey, are you at FOSS4G this week, or still at home? |
| 19:51:04 | sigq: | osgeofeed: Ticket #294 ( task closed ): FOSS4G2009 Website Setup <http://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/ticket/294#comment:4> |
| 21:28:44 | stvn: | finds it quite useful that he has foss4gs wifi in the hotel : ) |
| 21:30:18 | crschmidt: | heh |
| 21:30:26 | : | * crschmidt doesn't find it useful that he still can't see straight after last night |
| 22:30:47 | stvn: | try to putoyour glasses on ; ) |
| 22:54:04 | mkl: | state department on situational awareness of humanitarian emergencies in 6.2a |
| 22:54:20 | mkl: | 2.4a? |
| 22:55:00 | crschmidt: | stvn: Yeah, my glasses don't make that much of a difference : ) |
| 22:55:16 | : | * crschmidt is watching raj in 1.6 |
| 22:55:19 | stvn: | mkl: 2.4a |
| 22:56:33 | : | * stvn is watching vincent in 2.4b |
| 22:57:06 | stvn: | 'write once, patch everywhere' <- javascript programming :D |
| 22:58:03 | crschmidt: | iheh, heh |
| 22:58:14 | crschmidt: | stvn: what's he talking about? |
| 22:58:38 | stvn: | mapfaces, a new product from geomatys, they gave up on javascript programming |
| 22:58:43 | crschmidt: | gotcha |
| 22:58:59 | crschmidt: | yeah, i saw that and sai 'java' |
| 22:59:34 | stvn: | oui |
| 22:59:49 | crschmidt: | rather, 'ew, java' |
| 23:02:55 | : | * stvn has no issues with java, as long as he doesn't need to develop for it |
| 23:04:12 | crschmidt: | See, I seldom fid myself using software that I don't want to modify something about anymore |
| 23:05:29 | stvn: | I prefer to use software where I don't want to change anything about ( because then it is good ) but I hardly ever find that software :( |
| 23:05:41 | crschmidt: | Right : ) |
| 23:07:09 | stvn: | notices OL/MB influences in their JS bits |
| 23:10:46 | crschmidt: | I see that in most GIS S these days |
| 23:10:47 | crschmidt: | JS |
| 23:11:30 | stvn: | he has very nice sensor data maps |
| 23:15:09 | : | * stvn thinks that the people in 1.6 are behind schedule |
| 23:16:34 | crschmidt: | we only have two people |
| 23:16:37 | crschmidt: | er |
| 23:16:37 | crschmidt: | 3 |
| 23:16:40 | crschmidt: | instead of 4 |
| 23:17:26 | stvn: | ah that explains, I rushed downstairs to get in time for the next talk |
| 23:19:05 | : | * crschmidt isn't really positive |
| 23:19:11 | crschmidt: | which talk? proj4js? |
| 23:20:02 | stvn: | yes, very curious who is going to give it |
| 23:21:20 | mkl: | "if their information products are in the public domain, their data should be in the public domain" |
| 23:21:48 | crschmidt: | stvn: i'm wondering if maybe no one is, and that's why we have only 3 instead of 4 |
| 23:21:53 | crschmidt: | but i only heard vague mumblings |
| 23:27:25 | stvn: | http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3087/2900682319_e46f7ddc0c.jpg :D |
| 23:27:44 | stvn: | ( he was snoring ) |
| 23:32:21 | stvn: | mike was supposed to give the presentation?? |
| 23:32:28 | crschmidt: | Apparently so |
| 23:32:41 | crschmidt: | But DM didn't send him... |
| 23:32:41 | stvn: | heh |
| 23:32:56 | stvn: | indeed, could have told frank that ; ) |
| 23:41:42 | crschmidt: | stvn: you're 'Steven', right? |
| 23:42:03 | : | * crschmidt is working on tagging his photos from last night |
| 23:42:10 | crschmidt: | and yesterday |
| 23:44:35 | stvn: | yeah it is ;'Steven' |
| 23:45:08 | stvn: | vheurteaux: nice talk, interesting product |
| 23:45:40 | vheurteaux: | My presentation was not prepared :-/ |
| 23:45:54 | vheurteaux: | and my english is so ... special :- ) |
| 23:46:17 | stvn: | hehe, most english is special, for a french it was quite good |
| 23:47:24 | vheurteaux: | :-D thank's |
| 23:47:52 | vheurteaux: | for the Constellation project Adrian Custer will do the talk it 'll be less hard for the public |
| 23:48:12 | stvn: | you had nice maps with sensor data, we're going to do stuff with sensor enabled web so I'll have a look to mapfaces in time |
| 23:48:57 | vheurteaux: | Yep, we're working with SOS |
| 23:52:53 | crschmidt: | stvn: http://www.flickr.com/photos/crschmidt/2900717329/ |
| 23:52:54 | sigq: | Title: Steven on MapBuilder on Flickr - Photo Sharing! ( at www.flickr.com ) |
| 23:55:02 | stvn: | : ) |
