| 00:00:10 | ajturner: | just listened to a presentation about how we was going to do his presentation - hadn't actually done anything yet |
| 00:31:36 | mkl: | what's on in 1.6 right now? |
| 00:31:44 | stvn: | mapfish |
| 00:37:13 | ajturner: | camped in the camptocamp session |
| 01:01:56 | : | * seven is looking for Jeff. If any body sees him pls ask him to come to the OSGeo booth. Thank you. |
| 01:17:05 | seven: | crschmidt: I got Dirk here, heis giving a demo on Geomajas at 12:10 and believes that it would be interesting to cooperate with OL. If you got ten minutes maybe you could come there. |
| 01:18:34 | crschmidt: | that's in like 50 minutes, right? |
| 01:20:08 | seven: | crschmidt: right |
| 01:20:15 | crschmidt: | okay |
| 01:20:18 | Schuyler: | p.s. writing books is a lousy way to make money |
| 01:20:30 | seven: | Schuyler: ++ :- ) |
| 01:21:03 | Schuyler: | just sayin' ; ) |
| 02:01:22 | stvn: | says that jeff was at the gdal talk |
| 03:31:17 | ajturner: | wow, Mikel and Schuyler both just had their names murdered by chair |
| 03:31:22 | ajturner: | just should be M & S |
| 03:34:34 | stvn: | : ) |
| 03:36:24 | : | * stvn points to http://xkcd.com/ in light of the recent bookwriting discussion |
| 03:36:25 | sigq: | Title: xkcd - A Webcomic - Fiction Rule of Thumb ( at xkcd.com ) |
| 04:02:55 | seven: | Calling Jeff McKenna, Mckenna please. |
| 04:03:14 | seven: | Paging McKenna, McKenna please. |
| 04:19:38 | tbowden: | Looking for a good title for a talk about osgeo. Any suggestions? |
| 04:19:49 | tbowden: | for those not so up on foss |
| 04:21:22 | stvn: | 'foss, a no go' ; ) |
| 04:23:44 | stvn: | 'OSGeo: Extra Special Reasonable Insttue' with big ESRI capitals |
| 04:24:40 | tbowden: | cool |
| 04:25:06 | tbowden: | might end up using that if I don't get anything else |
| 04:29:06 | spacedman: | ESRI = Expensive Software, Runs Intermittently... |
| 04:31:18 | tbowden: | or Extra Special Rescue Institute |
| 04:31:23 | tbowden: | for OSGeo |
| 04:32:50 | spacedman: | are they playing nicely, or just sponsoring loads? |
| 04:44:06 | tbowden: | spacedman: ? ESRI are here, but they're playing nicely. Special situation here. SA has been mandated to prefer FOSS. Everyone is wanting to know what it is, but haven't been using it because they know nothing about it. |
| 05:22:58 | doktoreas: | hello everybody |
| 05:25:38 | tbowden: | +++ Live DVD bof starting soon. Have to get there first! +++ |
| 05:25:58 | tbowden: | checking where it is... |
| 05:26:43 | doktoreas: | :D |
| 05:34:54 | tbowden: | ok, here! |
| 05:34:56 | tbowden: | present in meatspace: Ari J, Tbowden, Frank Sokolic from South Africa |
| 05:35:02 | tbowden: | moving to see if I can get power at the overhead.... |
| 05:35:11 | doktoreas: | present luca from Italy :( |
| 05:35:22 | mlesli1: | Mark here from Sydney |
| 05:35:36 | tbowden: | ok. ready to go |
| 05:35:38 | tbowden: | from this end |
| 05:35:40 | vmx: | volker here from sydney ( vmische when at work ) |
| 05:36:08 | tbowden: | agenda: where do we take the live dvd |
| 05:36:17 | tbowden: | goals? |
| 05:36:53 | mlesli1: | My ultimate goal is to have a set of .deb files containing everything that we could/should have on a live dvd. |
| 05:37:11 | mlesli1: | That would include applications, data, configurations, tutorials, etc. |
| 05:37:12 | tbowden: | mlesli1: agreed from this end |
| 05:37:23 | doktoreas: | so we are extending to a repository, not only a livecd |
| 05:37:37 | tbowden: | repo for apps, data, turorials, docos |
| 05:37:43 | tbowden: | for the download challenged |
| 05:37:47 | mlesli1: | I view that as necessary for collaboration |
| 05:37:49 | tbowden: | which is here in SA |
| 05:38:07 | tbowden: | and the teachers last night wanted an edu cd with everything |
| 05:38:14 | tbowden: | lesson plans, labs etc |
| 05:38:16 | doktoreas: | I am with you, but I think we must split apps from the rest |
| 05:38:24 | mlesli1: | Yes. |
| 05:38:28 | tbowden: | why? |
| 05:38:32 | mlesli1: | Apps would have their own deb files. |
| 05:38:34 | tbowden: | data can go in repos |
| 05:38:35 | mlesli1: | Data another. |
| 05:38:41 | doktoreas: | +1 |
| 05:38:43 | mlesli1: | Configurations that depend on both. |
| 05:38:44 | tbowden: | yes, lots of deb files |
| 05:38:50 | tbowden: | but everything there |
| 05:39:04 | tbowden: | doktoreas: where are you? |
| 05:39:08 | tbowden: | just out of interest |
| 05:39:15 | mlesli1: | It will be a mess of dependencies, but it should be then easy to churn out specialised images. |
| 05:39:15 | doktoreas: | in the middle of Italy |
| 05:39:19 | doktoreas: | Gubbio ( PG ) |
| 05:39:31 | tbowden: | cool, I'm looking for a job in italy |
| 05:39:39 | vmx: | the question is which kind of deb files? db files that could potentially move into debian main? or just debs that somehow install something ( like deploying war files )? |
| 05:39:40 | tbowden: | take the family there for a few years |
| 05:39:48 | doktoreas: | I am looking for a job, outside ITaly |
| 05:39:50 | doktoreas: | :D |
| 05:39:57 | tbowden: | yes, we must target debian sid |
| 05:40:01 | tbowden: | ;- ) |
| 05:40:16 | mlesli1: | vmx: debian main is a nice goal, but that's a bit farther away. |
| 05:40:27 | tbowden: | who are users of live dvd? developing countries, or what? |
| 05:40:45 | vmx: | building "real" deb packages ( for main ) means that all dependencies must be packaged too ( and there are a lot ) |
| 05:40:54 | mlesli1: | Ideally the projects will be 'inspired' to package in the proper debian main, but that's off my scope at the moment. |
| 05:40:58 | tbowden: | yes, big effort, but needed |
| 05:41:02 | vmx: | i think that should be the ultimate goal, but it's not one to start with |
| 05:41:09 | mlesli1: | agreed. |
| 05:41:13 | tbowden: | projects are'nt good at packaging |
| 05:41:17 | vmx: | it can be done step by step |
| 05:41:34 | mlesli1: | Java projects especially : ) |
| 05:41:43 | vmx: | living in e.g. a osgeo based repository |
| 05:42:16 | mlesli1: | Yup. I wouldn't expect data or config to ever leave an osgeo repository, but the apps should at some point. |
| 05:42:33 | tbowden: | yes, osgeo repo -> debian sid -> whatever |
| 05:42:57 | mlesli1: | For the shorter term. What uses are we looking to cover with these dvds? |
| 05:43:05 | doktoreas: | right now there's debian GIS, right? |
| 05:43:11 | vmx: | i would package for debian testing ( but that's a detail ) |
| 05:43:19 | doktoreas: | nice vmx |
| 05:43:37 | tbowden: | Paolo Zatelli joining us |
| 05:43:47 | doktoreas: | Hi Paolo : ) |
| 05:43:48 | frankie: | not all stuff acceptable for a live-dvd necessarily match DFSG for debian main, FYI |
| 05:43:54 | tbowden: | yes, but they have no bodies |
| 05:44:02 | tbowden: | at least not enough to do anything |
| 05:44:09 | tbowden: | they need lots of help |
| 05:44:20 | frankie: | +1 |
| 05:44:27 | tbowden: | most of the stuff will work for dfsg |
| 05:44:34 | vmx: | frankie: therefore we the osgeo repository |
| 05:44:36 | frankie: | and i'm the d-gis PM for note |
| 05:44:49 | tbowden: | we love you frankie! |
| 05:44:55 | frankie: | i know |
| 05:44:57 | frankie: | : ) |
| 05:44:57 | tbowden: | you do great work |
| 05:45:01 | tbowden: | lol |
| 05:45:21 | tbowden: | but we need to learn how to work with you |
| 05:45:37 | tbowden: | but back to master plan |
| 05:45:49 | tbowden: | what do we want the live dvd used for? |
| 05:45:58 | tbowden: | I see it as a base for specialist dvd |
| 05:46:01 | tbowden: | 's |
| 05:46:12 | tbowden: | like edu, promos for projects etc |
| 05:46:16 | mlesli1: | Yup. We can add and remove as needed. |
| 05:46:27 | frankie: | probably two targets: edu and demos |
| 05:46:32 | mlesli1: | My use-case is a tutorial dvd to hand out at conferences and base workshops on. |
| 05:46:55 | doktoreas: | I see as a sort of OSGEO-Journal |
| 05:47:02 | mlesli1: | There's another that may be for installation, but I'm not convinced this is the proper mechanism for that. |
| 05:47:07 | tbowden: | The SA ppl need it in hard copy because they can't download it |
| 05:47:28 | tbowden: | chatter at this end... |
| 05:47:35 | doktoreas: | we can release it at fixed time |
| 05:47:41 | doktoreas: | like the Journal |
| 05:47:45 | mlesli1: | Asking anyone to download it is an ordeal. If we want them to use it, we need to put it in their hand. |
| 05:47:46 | vmx: | i have to admit that i see the live-dvd more as an eye catcher, a by product that can easily produced once the projects are packaged, so my goal is get things packaged |
| 05:47:47 | frankie: | tbowden: so a knoppix-like - live + hd-installer |
| 05:47:48 | doktoreas: | except for special event.. |
| 05:47:58 | tbowden: | frankie: +1 |
| 05:48:00 | mlesli1: | vmx: agreed |
| 05:48:11 | frankie: | vmx: +1 |
| 05:48:21 | tbowden: | vmx: only for some parts of teh world |
| 05:48:39 | tbowden: | others need it as a working resource |
| 05:48:42 | tbowden: | like here |
| 05:48:49 | doktoreas: | yeah |
| 05:49:11 | tbowden: | needs to be a "teach the teacher" resource, as well as for kids |
| 05:49:16 | tbowden: | in classrooms |
| 05:49:22 | frankie: | for a workstation use one needs to choose a specific desktop manager and other non-gis stuff too |
| 05:49:31 | tbowden: | so lots of material from edu needs to go on it |
| 05:49:49 | tbowden: | there are complaints about the xubuntu of our current disk |
| 05:50:04 | mlesli1: | tbowden: what are they complaining about? |
| 05:50:05 | tbowden: | but that's a live boot resource question |
| 05:50:09 | doktoreas: | for what tbowden ? |
| 05:50:14 | tbowden: | plain interface |
| 05:50:22 | vmx: | ok, so the project might split into 2 parts? one part is getting it packed, the other once create special purpose dvds? |
| 05:50:29 | tbowden: | only a few small complaints |
| 05:50:35 | tbowden: | they want full ubuntu |
| 05:50:40 | mlesli1: | Bah. Once packaged, we can use ubunte, xubuntu, gubuntu |
| 05:50:52 | vmx: | customizing dvds is really easy |
| 05:50:57 | tbowden: | mlesli1: +1 |
| 05:51:04 | vmx: | mlesli1: +1 |
| 05:51:07 | doktoreas: | tbowden: when I started the livecd xubuntu was there for less resources and to save space |
| 05:51:09 | frankie: | i would suggest using existing debianlive-cd for preparing customized multipurpose images |
| 05:51:09 | tbowden: | just giving feedback |
| 05:51:17 | mlesli1: | We also need to be mindful of the image size. We took OpenOffice out for space reasons. If they want it back in, we can, but it will get very sluggish. |
| 05:51:18 | ajolma1: | what's on it is not so important ( re edu material ) as how to get things on it |
| 05:51:20 | doktoreas: | now that we are on DVD we can move to any DM |
| 05:51:33 | tbowden: | understand the rational. makes sense but to a user it may not seem the best |
| 05:51:34 | vmx: | frankie: +1 ( i played with it, it's nice ) |
| 05:51:41 | tbowden: | DM? |
| 05:51:53 | doktoreas: | desktop manager |
| 05:51:59 | tbowden: | ah. |
| 05:52:36 | tbowden: | good q about the OO stuff. |
| 05:52:58 | tbowden: | if it's something to be trialed, leave it out, but for those really using it, leave it in |
| 05:53:15 | tbowden: | maybe a full edu dvd etc, but that's just special purpose editions |
| 05:53:32 | tbowden: | so to get there we need to look at packaging first I guess |
| 05:53:36 | vmx: | so we need people that really understand the needs for those dvds, like edu, small size etc. |
| 05:53:57 | tbowden: | vmx: +1 |
| 05:54:00 | vmx: | i saw the dvds from a technical perspective only |
| 05:54:14 | tbowden: | wasn't time to look at it any other way |
| 05:54:19 | mlesli1: | My worry is about the live-cd feature taking too much ram. If we're putting out an installer, then we've got 4.5GB to play with. |
| 05:54:19 | tbowden: | but now we can. |
| 05:54:33 | tbowden: | for some it is an installer |
| 05:54:57 | tbowden: | some comments about using it to get the latest stuff pre-packaged |
| 05:55:02 | ajolma1: | what's the current procedure of building the image? |
| 05:55:05 | tbowden: | instead of building from source |
| 05:55:48 | vmx: | ajolma1: the current one was manually made ( mounting the iso and installing things ) |
| 05:56:05 | mlesli1: | Hmm. Much of what's on there isn't the latest. It's what's the latest in the debian main :( |
| 05:56:09 | doktoreas: | ajolma: I used Ubuntu Customization Kit |
| 05:56:25 | vmx: | but i think it is more or less agreed ( i think in the last meeting ) that we should move to something automated ( like live-helper ) |
| 05:56:31 | mlesli1: | doktoreas did it right. We're now trying to catch up. |
| 05:56:40 | ajolma1: | would it be possible to set up a repo from it's built? |
| 05:56:52 | : | * darkblue_B starts reading back |
| 05:56:58 | tbowden: | do we need a means for non techs to mix and match and press go and create their own image? |
| 05:57:04 | ajolma1: | I mean people could contribute to the repo... |
| 05:57:07 | mlesli1: | vmx: yup |
| 05:57:15 | doktoreas: | yeah |
| 05:57:32 | ajolma1: | tbowden: sounds complicated.. |
| 05:58:01 | tbowden: | Is it? anyone... |
| 05:58:04 | frankie: | in the d-livecd there's still the need to have all pre-packaged, which could be not adequate |
| 05:58:22 | frankie: | you know udig, gvsig and so on are not packaged currently |
| 05:58:28 | tbowden: | but if we do step 1, get everything into .deb ( big job I know... ) |
| 05:58:47 | doktoreas: | that would be a very big task tbowden |
| 05:58:59 | tbowden: | maybe we need to just limit ourselves for now to getting packaging going |
| 05:59:07 | tbowden: | that seems to be the choke pt |
| 05:59:08 | doktoreas: | I think that frankie tried to package gvSIG.. |
| 05:59:08 | frankie: | as a principle one can use checkinstall to get a basic package |
| 05:59:16 | mlesli1: | we've been playing with getting udig, gvsig and geoserver into .debs. |
| 05:59:41 | tbowden: | googling checkinstall... |
| 05:59:45 | mlesli1: | It's not a pretty process, but it's worked so far ( though I think Stefan got stuck on GeoServer ) |
| 05:59:46 | vmx: | i would also like to see people collecting their use cases for the dvds ( while the others are packaging ) |
| 06:00:31 | tbowden: | so priorities, use cases and packaging |
| 06:00:39 | mlesli1: | +1 |
| 06:00:44 | vmx: | +1 |
| 06:00:53 | tbowden: | we fix any big bugs with the current disk and then start a fresh effort |
| 06:00:55 | frankie: | vmx: if the basic framework was simple enough people could easily customize for their own purposes |
| 06:01:00 | vmx: | frankie: can one base a package build on the checkinstall "output"? |
| 06:01:23 | mlesli1: | Later priority is a shared repository, but we can use downloads for the moment. |
| 06:01:51 | frankie: | vmx: not always but it is possible for some packages. java packages are quite monolithic... |
| 06:02:18 | tbowden: | how far away is an official java .deb, or do we need our own anyway? |
| 06:02:33 | vmx: | i see the process as: we support the debian gis team, and put our efforts ( the packages ) into an osgeo repository |
| 06:02:36 | frankie: | do you mean in main? |
| 06:02:43 | tbowden: | yes |
| 06:02:43 | frankie: | tbowden: ^^^ |
| 06:03:00 | frankie: | tbowden: currently openjdk is in main, sunjava in non-free |
| 06:03:10 | mlesli1: | tbowden: sun has java 5 and 6 in repos ( don't recall which ones ) and there's a gcj version that tomcat hates, but might work for gvSIG or uDig. |
| 06:03:21 | tbowden: | sunjava will be free one day won't it? |
| 06:03:29 | vmx: | then the packages should be moved to the official debian-gis project ( once they have reached the quality ( and are dfsg compatible ) |
| 06:03:35 | darkblue_B: | so.. everything in packages.. as opposed to a current master that can be worked on.. how important is that really? |
| 06:03:43 | crschmidt: | Extremely? |
| 06:03:49 | tbowden: | darkblue_B: very |
| 06:03:58 | mlesli1: | yes |
| 06:04:19 | darkblue_B: | ok |
| 06:04:22 | mlesli1: | We lost a third of our day distributing images when building. |
| 06:04:25 | tbowden: | timeline 2yrs? |
| 06:04:26 | vmx: | won't be the openjdk7 almost the same as the sun jdk ( or even the same? ) |
| 06:04:32 | mlesli1: | If others had made changes, it would have been over half. |
| 06:04:41 | frankie: | vmx: yes |
| 06:04:51 | tbowden: | rsync binary images? make it easier |
| 06:05:11 | mlesli1: | tbowden: that would've been better |
| 06:05:15 | mlesli1: | packages will be prime. |
| 06:05:24 | frankie: | or using jigdo |
| 06:05:25 | tbowden: | so what apps do we do first? |
| 06:05:56 | tbowden: | priorities? are there existing packages that need more help before we start new ones? |
| 06:05:58 | mlesli1: | Off the top of my head, mapserver, qgis, postgis and grass are already packaged. |
| 06:06:14 | mlesli1: | We've got gvSIG and uDig almost ready to upload. |
| 06:06:17 | frankie: | qgis is available, but still not returned in main |
| 06:06:22 | mlesli1: | GeoServer was next on our list. |
| 06:06:35 | tbowden: | all java stuff... |
| 06:06:43 | vmx: | i think geoserver would be one of the major java packages |
| 06:06:46 | tbowden: | Claude Philipona just joined us |
| 06:06:52 | tbowden: | he want mapguide in |
| 06:06:56 | tbowden: | eventually... |
| 06:07:04 | tbowden: | but complicated |
| 06:07:05 | frankie: | he's welcome to do that :-P |
| 06:07:13 | doktoreas: | lol |
| 06:07:13 | darkblue_B: | well.. whether for EDU labs or Show Floor Promotion, or what ever, I thnk the demos are really a great addition.. so I am wonderng if demos are .deb packageable.. like a nice OpenLayers demo all set up, with HTML easilt available |
| 06:07:15 | tbowden: | if autodesk pays him |
| 06:07:17 | mlesli1: | Yes. There is a mapguide livecd, so they may be close to sharing. |
| 06:07:22 | crschmidt: | darkblue_B: yes. |
| 06:07:24 | vmx: | could we do something like first package version is the war file ( i know, it's ugly and not debian style, but would be a start ) |
| 06:07:32 | : | * frankie hold on |
| 06:07:33 | tbowden: | darkblue_B: yup |
| 06:07:39 | darkblue_B: | ok |
| 06:07:56 | : | * crschmidt has some debian packaging materials for OpenLayers that he should update for 2.7 |
| 06:08:21 | tbowden: | OL is important. thanks for the offer crschmidt! |
| 06:08:35 | tbowden: | you're the owner of that one ;- ) |
| 06:09:12 | darkblue_B: | I find web mapping, more than GIS, as a real interest point for new audiences.. yes, thx crschmidt |
| 06:09:18 | mlesli1: | Now, if we build an OL demo to include, do we build one for MapServer, another for GeoServer... |
| 06:09:32 | crschmidt: | mlesli1: GeoSErver ships with demos built in |
| 06:09:33 | tbowden: | mlesli1: yes |
| 06:09:56 | vmx: | if war files could be packaged, all server based java application could be easily package ( geoserver, geonetwork ) |
| 06:10:00 | : | * crschmidt isn't sure about MapServer, but assumes the gmap example might be worthwhile or something? |
| 06:10:04 | mlesli1: | Yup, but if we want something more impressive for demos, nicer data and such,. |
| 06:10:06 | frankie: | isn't web-related stuff quite limited in a live-cd env? it is of interest for d-gis for sure btw |
| 06:10:25 | tbowden: | frankie: web stuff has gone down well on the live dvd here |
| 06:10:29 | darkblue_B: | quite limited ?? |
| 06:10:30 | tbowden: | they love it |
| 06:10:37 | tbowden: | must get more done for next conf |
| 06:10:44 | mlesli1: | vmx: wars can be 'deployed' from a package if needed. |
| 06:10:54 | frankie: | oh well probably it's ok for demo stuff with local data |
| 06:10:58 | crschmidt: | frankie: If you're shipping a webserver, then the web stuff doesn't have to be limited at all |
| 06:11:01 | vmx: | mlesli1: that's what i mean |
| 06:11:22 | crschmidt: | Also, we're not targeting our livecd for offline use ( at least not yet ) |
| 06:11:24 | mlesli1: | Yeah, we can. I'm hoping for something a bit more elegant that will allow removal as well. |
| 06:11:39 | tbowden: | crschmidt: yes we are, for the edu people here. |
| 06:11:48 | : | * frankie phone again :-( |
| 06:11:55 | tbowden: | quite a demand particularly if the edu mob can get their act together |
| 06:11:58 | darkblue_B: | as long as the cd doesnt really fail when offline.. |
| 06:12:06 | mlesli1: | I would like offline options; ie. fully tutorials and sample data included. |
| 06:12:11 | crschmidt: | tbowden: Okay; misunderstanding |
| 06:12:19 | mlesli1: | Would be nice to also have default projects with 'known' services. |
| 06:12:25 | crschmidt: | Anyway, it's easy to ship some demo data. I mean, GeoSErver ships with demo data. |
| 06:12:40 | crschmidt: | So we don't have to do anything other than get GeoServer installeed in order to get some sample services up and running. |
| 06:12:51 | tbowden: | not just demo data, but full edu resources. lesson plans, labs etc |
| 06:12:54 | tbowden: | eventually |
| 06:13:01 | mlesli1: | tbowden: agreed |
| 06:13:07 | tbowden: | but all that must come from the edu team |
| 06:13:10 | darkblue_B: | tbowden: excellent |
| 06:13:16 | tbowden: | we package it for them |
| 06:13:28 | vmx: | +1 |
| 06:13:44 | doktoreas: | sure we need package for that stuff? |
| 06:13:52 | tbowden: | so maybe #1 we have to get involved with just packaging to start |
| 06:14:15 | tbowden: | doktoreas: yes, must all be in .deb so can be pick and choose |
| 06:14:26 | tbowden: | different edu ppl have different needs |
| 06:14:33 | doktoreas: | if we got a repository with all docs,tutorial,data we can overlay it like Catalyst from Gentoo do |
| 06:14:37 | mlesli1: | doktoreas: we don't 'need' it ,but it would make it much easier to get it into images. Otherwise it lives only in the edu image. |
| 06:14:45 | doktoreas: | ah, I understand... |
| 06:15:00 | tbowden: | .deb is the key for me I think |
| 06:15:16 | doktoreas: | so for example, a package will include data tutorial and everything else needed ? |
| 06:15:24 | tbowden: | then how do we build a make your own dvd resource? |
| 06:15:27 | darkblue_B: | so.. ordinary source control.. plus some indication of what goes into which .deb ? |
| 06:15:32 | doktoreas: | yep, it's good choice.. |
| 06:15:45 | mlesli1: | It's basic reuse. If data is used by two tutorials, it's a deb of it's own that both tutorials depend on. |
| 06:15:49 | tbowden: | seperate packages for data, lessons etc |
| 06:16:47 | tbowden: | frankie: what are the priorities from dgis pov? |
| 06:17:15 | tbowden: | does osgeo have the bandwidth for a repo? |
| 06:17:32 | crschmidt: | Yes |
| 06:17:43 | tbowden: | k, one less problem |
| 06:17:46 | crschmidt: | bandwidth is not currently one of our problems, and if it becomes one, we have solutions |
| 06:18:21 | tbowden: | so lisasoft leading the java apps? |
| 06:18:31 | mlesli1: | Yup. |
| 06:18:35 | ajolma1: | what about the process from repo to dvd image? |
| 06:18:39 | mlesli1: | For now anyway. |
| 06:18:48 | tbowden: | apt-get install then burn |
| 06:19:09 | mlesli1: | Pretty much. There are nicer tools from what I hear. |
| 06:19:16 | mlesli1: | haven't used them yet |
| 06:19:16 | vmx: | live-helper |
| 06:19:33 | vmx: | you define which packages you want, and it does the apt-get install for you |
| 06:19:48 | darkblue_B: | how many here at the meeting now, worked on adding packages to the current LiveCD ?? |
| 06:19:55 | ajolma1: | a bootstrap from an existing livedvd, add new things, make iso, burn? |
| 06:19:57 | mlesli1: | In this case, we'd need to configure a new repo as well. |
| 06:20:48 | vmx: | ajolma1: the bootstrap is a debian, at the end you have a iso |
| 06:20:59 | mlesli1: | darkblue_B: LISAsoft had three at various times. |
| 06:21:01 | tbowden: | were packages used for new stuff? or just plain build from source |
| 06:21:39 | mlesli1: | We didn't do packaging before getting it out the door. |
| 06:21:44 | tbowden: | I'll take that as build from source |
| 06:21:54 | mlesli1: | Build from installers mostly. |
| 06:22:08 | tbowden: | so apart from java apps, what do we need to do? |
| 06:22:23 | mlesli1: | Data, configuration, tutorials, doco. |
| 06:22:37 | doktoreas: | darkblue_B: me from Ominiverdi |
| 06:22:52 | crschmidt: | I think getting data/easy to follow tutorials is a significant concern |
| 06:23:06 | tbowden: | so do we set default install to /usr/local given we don't have official .deb's |
| 06:23:13 | mlesli1: | agreed. What's there now isn't really intuitive. |
| 06:23:41 | darkblue_B: | Where there tools or practices to AVOID in the process, that were supposed to have worked? horror stories people can learn from ? |
| 06:23:46 | tbowden: | so we need to work closely with the edu mob to get things going |
| 06:23:52 | vmx: | tbowden: even if they are not official i would install to /usr |
| 06:24:00 | crschmidt: | I agree with vmx |
| 06:24:01 | vmx: | you can easily uninstall them again |
| 06:24:12 | crschmidt: | Debian packages install to /usr. |
| 06:24:28 | tbowden: | frankie must still be on the phone |
| 06:24:30 | vmx: | and our goal is to build the official ones |
| 06:24:35 | tbowden: | or he'd jump in here |
| 06:24:49 | tbowden: | changing path once they get into sid is easy enough |
| 06:24:58 | vmx: | does anyone from osgeo have experience with setting up a debian repo? |
| 06:25:08 | tbowden: | -1 for me |
| 06:25:12 | : | * crschmidt does |
| 06:25:25 | mlesli1: | Whoo! |
| 06:25:34 | tbowden: | crschmidt is repo manager |
| 06:25:39 | crschmidt: | nope |
| 06:25:48 | tbowden: | oh... |
| 06:25:49 | crschmidt: | I said I have experience, not that I plan to use it : ) |
| 06:25:55 | tbowden: | penant |
| 06:25:58 | tbowden: | pedant |
| 06:26:37 | darkblue_B: | well.. as difficult as it is, to me this indicates the business models part of the discussion |
| 06:26:58 | tbowden: | but just watch everybody rushing for the job. not. |
| 06:27:01 | darkblue_B: | certain specialized services are worth money. in real life there are not infinite resources, immediately available |
| 06:27:23 | darkblue_B: | its great when things flow from pure cloud participation, but thtas not alwasy the case |
| 06:27:44 | tbowden: | but repo manager surely isn't that bad |
| 06:27:51 | crschmidt: | tbowden: I did it a long time ago, and I don't think I did it very well. I'm willing to try to get it set up, but depending on me is probably poor planning. |
| 06:27:53 | darkblue_B: | when I built a restaraunt, we alwasy had to pay the plumber in cash |
| 06:28:12 | crschmidt: | So if there's anyone else willing to try to take on the task, that would be better. |
| 06:28:40 | tbowden: | I'd like to put my hand up, but I'm not at all sure I can spare the time for now |
| 06:28:52 | tbowden: | and I have lots of want to do already |
| 06:28:56 | crschmidt: | Are you staying for the code sprint Saturday? |
| 06:28:59 | tbowden: | yes |
| 06:29:08 | darkblue_B: | this is a strategic asset to OSGeo.. I think it has a very bright future.. some planning on how to really get it stared right seems very worthwhile |
| 06:29:08 | crschmidt: | Okay. Maybe we can sit down if we have decent net and try something then |
| 06:29:11 | tbowden: | I'll learn from the schmidt masta then if you like |
| 06:29:15 | : | * mlesli1 envies |
| 06:29:39 | tbowden: | volunteer regretfully for repo master job |
| 06:29:53 | darkblue_B: | though ar from the emphasis, I think its imprduent to avoid all monetization at all stages |
| 06:30:02 | darkblue_B: | s/far/ar/ |
| 06:30:16 | tbowden: | no money for this project |
| 06:30:21 | tbowden: | in any way |
| 06:30:36 | ajolma1: | if this is seen as important marketing, then maybe there's money |
| 06:30:51 | darkblue_B: | you mean now? or you categorically reject any monetization or funding sources? |
| 06:30:52 | ajolma1: | from osgeo's purse |
| 06:31:05 | crschmidt: | darkblue_B: His statement simply means there isn't any available |
| 06:31:05 | tbowden: | not at all sure that's a good idea for some time |
| 06:31:10 | crschmidt: | agreed. |
| 06:31:26 | crschmidt: | If the project can't make a start without cash, there's no way it can take on long term success. |
| 06:31:58 | tbowden: | lets prove what we can do before we think about money |
| 06:32:07 | darkblue_B: | I disagree.. I think its a matter of experience with nonprofit models.. |
| 06:32:14 | tbowden: | just my $0.02, but in not fanatical by any means |
| 06:32:37 | crschmidt: | Anyway |
| 06:32:41 | crschmidt: | So we're going to try to get a repo set up |
| 06:32:46 | tbowden: | depends on how much you think time = money |
| 06:32:55 | crschmidt: | and someone is going to take on the role of managing the packages going into the repo |
| 06:32:59 | crschmidt: | which is possibly me or Tim |
| 06:33:01 | tbowden: | suppose really that is a proven equation |
| 06:33:05 | tbowden: | me |
| 06:33:13 | : | * darkblue_B is willing to defer the discussion now |
| 06:33:28 | crschmidt: | Okay. And we've got LISAsoft working on making packages for GeoServer and the like? |
| 06:33:34 | tbowden: | I'll see what I can do. Lets evaluate in 3 months |
| 06:33:46 | mlesli1: | correct |
| 06:33:59 | crschmidt: | So, GeoSErver comes with some sample data |
| 06:34:00 | darkblue_B: | perhaps another event we can tie the timeline too? |
| 06:34:27 | mlesli1: | darkblue_B: there's an event in November |
| 06:34:40 | mlesli1: | but I don't have the email in front of me, can't recall what it is, or where. |
| 06:34:44 | tbowden: | too soon? |
| 06:34:46 | mlesli1: | but there's something out there : ) |
| 06:34:51 | tbowden: | FOSS4G2009 |
| 06:34:57 | tbowden: | ? |
| 06:35:07 | darkblue_B: | too far ! |
| 06:35:22 | tbowden: | China has a big event in Jan... |
| 06:35:33 | tbowden: | that they want OSGeo at |
| 06:35:35 | crschmidt: | I think it's probably premature to concentrate on scheuddule |
| 06:35:37 | crschmidt: | schedule |
| 06:35:48 | mlesli1: | 2009 is LISAsofts ultimate target, but we need a couple between then. |
| 06:36:00 | crschmidt: | Let's try and get up and running first. |
| 06:36:16 | mlesli1: | crschmidt: agreed |
| 06:36:19 | crschmidt: | Is the edu group in a position to put together demo/training materials? |
| 06:36:21 | tbowden: | so lets target getting java stuff into .deb, along with a straw man of edu material for the edu ppl to work on |
| 06:36:35 | darkblue_B: | berkeley edu is very interested |
| 06:36:41 | tbowden: | edu material here: |
| 06:36:54 | crschmidt: | If they can create stuff in a tarball or something, I can probably get it packaged/deployed in debian stuf.f.. or maybe therei s material and I just don't know about it |
| 06:37:08 | tbowden: | tutorial for grass, usual data set in English from the Italians |
| 06:37:29 | crschmidt: | "usual data set"? |
| 06:37:31 | darkblue_B: | but.. isnt placement of the materials ever-important? |
| 06:37:34 | tbowden: | grass stuff in new... |
| 06:37:46 | tbowden: | old data, new tutorial |
| 06:38:09 | tbowden: | darkblue_B:? |
| 06:38:09 | darkblue_B: | its directory structure is self referential.. but .. on the disk, sometime there is a need for certain places.. |
| 06:38:34 | tbowden: | ok for offline and disk use |
| 06:38:40 | darkblue_B: | if someone sent a tarball of "stuff".. if its just some papers to read, thats one thing |
| 06:38:42 | tbowden: | being used for lab on Friday |
| 06:39:05 | tbowden: | I'll use it to learn .deb packaging |
| 06:39:14 | darkblue_B: | but isnt it true that real labs would mean.. things in the HTML Docs directory at least, for example? |
| 06:39:15 | tbowden: | and see what we come out with |
| 06:39:32 | darkblue_B: | binaries that have to be able to run, ect? |
| 06:39:33 | crschmidt: | darkblue_B: That would be the task of the packager to make sure it works, yes |
| 06:39:49 | tbowden: | not using a web server for the grass tutorial |
| 06:39:51 | darkblue_B: | hmm trying to forsee how this would really work |
| 06:39:57 | tbowden: | just browsing localy |
| 06:40:16 | crschmidt: | tbowden: Sure, but you have to have an entry point somehow. IT can be on the filesystem though, that's fine. |
| 06:40:37 | : | * frankie reading backlog |
| 06:40:52 | tbowden: | it's an html file on the desktop for now |
| 06:41:47 | crschmidt: | tbowden: k |
| 06:42:06 | ajolma1: | maybe "/usr/share/osgeo/grass" or something |
| 06:43:00 | crschmidt: | So, do we have a list of packages we want installed on this thing yet? |
| 06:43:08 | tbowden: | crschmidt: no |
| 06:43:10 | crschmidt: | If not, is a wikipage the right way to document that? |
| 06:43:17 | tbowden: | +1 |
| 06:43:21 | vmx: | +1 |
| 06:43:22 | crschmidt: | ( sorry if I'm missing important things by manning the booth ) |
| 06:43:23 | mlesli1: | +1 |
| 06:43:35 | crschmidt: | is there an existing wikipage for livedvd stuff? |
| 06:43:42 | tbowden: | crschmidt: np |
| 06:43:47 | mlesli1: | Yup. \ |
| 06:44:00 | tbowden: | & thanks for covering for me ;- ) |
| 06:44:35 | crschmidt: | no problem. I'm actually playing with flickr slideshow on the osgeo booth computer. |
| 06:44:38 | tbowden: | waiting for frankie to do backreading and answer what the priorities are for him |
| 06:44:52 | crschmidt: | Amazing how when you make pictures the size of the full screen, things that seem good as thumbnails don't seem so good anymore.. : ) |
| 06:44:53 | mlesli1: | http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Live_GIS_Disc |
| 06:44:54 | sigq: | Title: Live GIS Disc - OSGeo Wiki ( at wiki.osgeo.org ) |
| 06:44:58 | crschmidt: | thanks mlesli1 |
| 06:45:27 | frankie: | ok, for d-gis a priority is having other java-related packages in |
| 06:45:58 | tbowden: | and for the non java ppl? |
| 06:46:15 | frankie: | that's partially blocked by the now-almost-solved java-in-main issue |
| 06:46:34 | tbowden: | sorry, I'm not going to get mixed up in java packaging. Nothing personal, just don't feel at home in java |
| 06:46:47 | frankie: | but for qgis, i think there are very few packages still lacking |
| 06:47:07 | frankie: | there's the need to have more r-related attention |
| 06:47:14 | mlesli1: | We have an 'issue' with dependencies of JAI and ImageIO |
| 06:47:16 | tbowden: | k, so where do we find a roadmap for r & qgis packaging? |
| 06:47:23 | mlesli1: | Those will keep us out of main for a good while yet. |
| 06:47:46 | crschmidt: | well, OpenLayers should also keep GeoSErver out of main |
| 06:47:49 | tbowden: | we don't need to be worried about main for now. just osgeo repo and sid |
| 06:47:49 | frankie: | qgis should be in reasonable times - but of course it depends also on upstream roadmap |
| 06:47:50 | crschmidt: | since OpenLayers is non-free |
| 06:47:55 | darkblue_B: | so there are optional .debs, and required .debs, in the plan, yes? |
| 06:48:05 | tbowden: | crschmidt: why? |
| 06:48:06 | darkblue_B: | there has to be a baseline |
| 06:48:28 | mlesli1: | GeoServer is not dependent of OpenLayers. We would just strip that out if needed. |
| 06:48:29 | crschmidt: | tbowden: The JS compressor we use can't be used for evil |
| 06:48:35 | mlesli1: | ...AFAIK |
| 06:48:44 | frankie: | i would also add a bounce of useful perl modules and other dev stuff |
| 06:48:47 | tbowden: | oh. so what's the solution? |
| 06:49:16 | ajolma1: | frankie: I'm keen on that also |
| 06:49:41 | crschmidt: | tbowden: Well, that depens what the problem is |
| 06:49:52 | crschmidt: | it doesn't affect the livecd issue |
| 06:49:55 | tbowden: | crschmidt: dfsg |
| 06:50:37 | frankie: | about data, it is not practical having data in main BUT it could be useful having installer packages |
| 06:50:49 | darkblue_B: | the java discussion makes me think there has to be some demarkation of baseline contents, packages.. those have to be marked somehow in the repo |
| 06:50:55 | tbowden: | data can stay in osgeo repos without any problems I think |
| 06:51:03 | crschmidt: | tbowden: yeah |
| 06:51:08 | mlesli1: | Yes. |
| 06:51:14 | crschmidt: | Okay, so, whjat are our target applications? |
| 06:51:22 | crschmidt: | GeoSErver. MapServer. QGIS. uDig. |
| 06:51:33 | frankie: | tbowden: that would be great |
| 06:51:36 | crschmidt: | gvSig |
| 06:51:40 | tbowden: | qgis on the non java front |
| 06:51:54 | crschmidt: | pgadmin3, i guess? |
| 06:51:59 | mlesli1: | OpenLayers |
| 06:52:02 | darkblue_B: | yes |
| 06:52:07 | vmx: | geonetwork? |
| 06:52:15 | ajolma1: | pgadmin3 yes, grass, r-spatial |
| 06:52:15 | tbowden: | I'll work on .deb ing any data I'm sent |
| 06:52:19 | mlesli1: | Yes, that's a huge one we're missing. |
| 06:52:33 | mlesli1: | Geonetwork I mean. |
| 06:52:40 | darkblue_B: | OGR included in baseline, please |
| 06:52:54 | crschmidt: | ogr comes in with mapserver, but yeah, i'll ad some python stuff |
| 06:53:01 | tbowden: | pgadmin3 is already in apparently |
| 06:53:01 | mlesli1: | And GDAL of course. |
| 06:53:09 | tbowden: | gdal already in |
| 06:53:19 | crschmidt: | tbowden: What is currently in and what we want as packages are not what I'm trying to resolve |
| 06:53:20 | tbowden: | is frankie doing all those packages alone? |
| 06:53:23 | ajolma1: | gdal of course, with wrappers ( perl : ) |
| 06:53:42 | crschmidt: | tbowden: I think that we'll probably want to have a complete list because we'll probably want to start using something like live-helper |
| 06:53:53 | frankie: | http://pkg-grass.alioth.debian.org/debiangis-status.html |
| 06:53:54 | sigq: | Title: DebianGis Status ( at pkg-grass.alioth.debian.org ) |
| 06:54:11 | frankie: | served : ) |
| 06:55:06 | mlesli1: | Colours are not colour-blind friendly. |
| 06:55:34 | crschmidt: | do we want jump, ossim, etc? |
| 06:55:56 | darkblue_B: | I was thinking some kind of GeoBrowser would be great.. |
| 06:56:05 | crschmidt: | 'some kind of geobrowser'? |
| 06:56:09 | frankie: | i have some preliminary work on ossim |
| 06:56:25 | frankie: | it is available on d-gis svn |
| 06:56:27 | mlesli1: | Conceptually yes. |
| 06:56:37 | darkblue_B: | crschmidt: an end-user oriented globe app |
| 06:57:07 | crschmidt: | okay, but there isn't really one of those in existence ... other than Google Earth, which I assume isn't what you mean : ) |
| 06:57:39 | sophiap: | ww java? |
| 06:57:45 | crschmidt: | not an application |
| 06:57:52 | darkblue_B: | WorldWind Java is falling off radar, and I thnk OSSIM has some 'user-friendly' work to do |
| 06:58:03 | crschmidt: | ( wwj is like OpenLayers; it's a mapping library ) |
| 06:58:09 | crschmidt: | ( not an application ) |
| 06:58:21 | sophiap: | true, but they are working on a client app |
| 06:58:28 | darkblue_B: | .. there are a few others.. but I cant promote a grat candidate at the moment |
| 06:58:59 | frankie: | some project should be more community-friendly, but that's another issue : ) |
| 06:59:04 | mlesli1: | Well, it's time for me to sleep. |
| 06:59:28 | crschmidt: | http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Live_GIS_Disc_Packages |
| 06:59:29 | sigq: | Title: Live GIS Disc Packages - OSGeo Wiki ( at wiki.osgeo.org ) |
| 06:59:47 | mlesli1: | Have a great night all. |
| 06:59:56 | crschmidt: | G'night |
| 07:00:01 | darkblue_B: | thx mleslie ! |
| 07:00:41 | darkblue_B: | marble : ) |
| 07:01:12 | : | * frankie adding some stuff to the wiki page |
| 07:02:06 | crschmidt: | ( That's not as detailed as it should be yet ) |
| 07:03:27 | vmx: | do you need anything from the lisasoft guys? else i would also try to catch some sleep |
| 07:04:17 | frankie: | done |
| 07:04:32 | crschmidt: | vmx: not that i'm aware of |
| 07:04:50 | darkblue_B: | frankie: can we add some clear links between the related wiki pages for this proect?? otherwise it may get confusing with a n orphaned page |
| 07:05:09 | darkblue_B: | Live_GIS_Disc |
| 07:06:19 | crschmidt: | darkblue_B: go ahead |
| 07:06:36 | crschmidt: | i was just trying to get a quick list together, and couldn't figure out where in the page it made sense |
| 07:07:02 | darkblue_B: | FOSS4G2008_LiveDVD.. wht |
| 07:07:29 | darkblue_B: | thats three pages.. how do they relate? |
| 07:09:20 | darkblue_B: | Live_GIS_Disc is the 'master' entry page? |
| 07:09:37 | darkblue_B: | FOSS4G2008_LiveDVD is a description of what actually shippedfor this event |
| 07:10:00 | darkblue_B: | Live_GIS_Disc_Packages is thenew working area? |
| 07:10:17 | : | * nhv wonders if user-friendly work todo means adopting GEEarth's mouse controls :- ) |
| 07:10:39 | vmx: | ok guys, have a good night, cu |
| 07:10:44 | darkblue_B: | nhv yes, mouse control is crippling the use of the app |
| 07:11:15 | darkblue_B: | .. in my limited experience |
| 07:11:18 | nhv: | rotfl |
| 07:11:40 | darkblue_B: | cryptic replies not solving things |
| 07:12:14 | darkblue_B: | I would REALLY like to promote a Geo Browser as a standard demo platform, on this disc and elsewhere |
| 07:12:28 | darkblue_B: | it would be great if OSSIM were the vehicle |
| 07:12:30 | crschmidt: | darkblue_B: You'll need to write one first : ) |
| 07:12:42 | frankie: | darkblue_B: i would use comments and would open a subpage for packages as result |
| 07:13:00 | darkblue_B: | frankie: ??? |
| 07:13:48 | : | * nhv thinks fwiw the drag and drop interface for local files makes ossim quite user-friendly |
| 07:14:00 | frankie: | dandy: wikipedia comments page i mean |
| 07:14:06 | frankie: | ops |
| 07:14:11 | darkblue_B: | how do you zoom in and out nhv? |
| 07:14:12 | frankie: | darkblue_B: ^^^ |
| 07:14:31 | nhv: | with the mouse as explained in the user guide |
| 07:15:29 | darkblue_B: | well in 20 years of writing consumer software, a fundemental principle was that an ordinary computer user should be able to do useful things just by starting the app |
| 07:15:55 | darkblue_B: | .. that was not my experience with OSSIM.. and I did not try much further |
| 07:16:03 | crschmidt: | for the record, all the wireless died here |
| 07:16:05 | nhv: | depress right mouse button drag vertically |
| 07:16:11 | crschmidt: | which is why we lost people who were at the BOF |
| 07:17:32 | darkblue_B: | nhv: I have a mac, wth a single button mouse.. |
| 07:17:42 | darkblue_B: | maybe its different now |
| 07:18:45 | darkblue_B: | I'm not against OSSIM, I want to be able to recommend OSSIM |
| 07:19:08 | darkblue_B: | frankie: I really dont understand what you suggested |
| 07:19:53 | frankie: | darkblue_B: s/comments/discussion/ page |
| 07:19:57 | frankie: | : ) |
| 07:20:24 | : | * nhv 's last comment ossimplanet requires a 3 button mouse Mac's work fine with 3 button mice |
| 07:22:40 | crschmidt: | nhv: if ossimplanet requires a three button mouse, I would claim that that alone makes it incompatible with a 'spread/use as default geobrowser' goal. |
| 07:23:42 | : | * nhv shrugs |
| 07:34:05 | seven: | FInal call: Jeff McKenna, please contact OSGeo HQ immediately. Thank you. |
| 07:47:44 | : | * seven is off to Stellenbosch, if you grab Jeff hit him hard for me please. |
| 08:02:38 | TylerM: | wow - such a quiet week : ) |
| 08:06:53 | pabs3: | crschmidt: how about using http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/compressor/ for OpenLayers? Uses the 3-clause BSD license |
| 08:06:54 | sigq: | Title: Yahoo! UI Library: YUI Compressor ( at developer.yahoo.com ) |
| 08:07:49 | pabs3: | it may be used for evil : ) |
| 08:11:15 | pabs3: | dojo shrinksafe and dean edwards' packer look free too |
| 08:46:04 | ras_h: | hallo |
| 08:46:12 | ras_h: | is there anybody |
| 08:54:59 | ras_h: | any project topic on gis |
| 08:55:14 | TylerM: | hi ras_h |
| 08:55:21 | TylerM: | what are you looking for? |
| 08:56:26 | ras_h: | i need to do my b.tech main project based on gis |
| 08:56:43 | TylerM: | so what part of gis are you going to look at? |
| 09:00:43 | ras_h: | i u can suggest a topic i can work for it? |
| 09:03:48 | ras_h: | i can do programming |
| 09:04:16 | ras_h: | if u can please tell me which all are the areas of gis |
| 09:04:36 | ras_h: | i don't know gis in very detail ,bu i know about it |
| 09:07:41 | ras_h: | halp |
| 09:07:41 | ras_h: | halo |
| 09:07:58 | ras_h: | can we do a traffic analyzer using is |
| 09:08:00 | ras_h: | gis |
| 09:08:30 | bitner: | ras_h: it sounds to me like you need to use the web and do a little more research to the point that you can ask a question that is not quite so general |
| 09:08:39 | bitner: | gis is a very wide field with many many things |
| 09:09:38 | ras_h: | using city maps we can view traffic situation online by gis |
| 10:02:30 | TylerM: | ah darn, missed ras_h.. |
| 10:03:09 | TylerM: | was to ask him to help me understand applying kalman filters to gps and other sensor data |
| 10:03:18 | TylerM: | .. he asked ;- ) |
| 10:03:39 | TylerM: | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalman_filter |
| 10:03:41 | sigq: | Title: Kalman filter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ( at en.wikipedia.org ) |
| 10:04:38 | bitner: | heh, don't we pay you to be nice? |
| 10:05:30 | TylerM: | oh that darn fine print, i always forget! |
| 10:06:08 | TylerM: | I think you gave a good suggestion |
| 10:07:14 | bitner: | I think this is the same person who asked the same question on the mailing list and got the same answer from someone else |
| 11:29:36 | pb: | ¿? |
| 11:30:17 | pb: | ¿Lorenzo? dice que tas away |
| 11:42:26 | darkblue_B: | Bull_[UK]: hello |
| 11:43:13 | Bull_[UK]: | hi there |
| 11:44:13 | darkblue_B: | we had a conversation eariler here about a project |
| 11:44:40 | darkblue_B: | .. a LiveDVD with a number of OSS OSGeo related apps and such on it |
| 11:44:51 | Bull_[UK]: | cool |
| 11:44:57 | darkblue_B: | I mentioned that it would be great to have a 'GeoBrowser' |
| 11:45:11 | darkblue_B: | .. included standard, for demos to rely on |
| 11:45:25 | darkblue_B: | WW Java has been quiet, it seems |
| 11:45:40 | darkblue_B: | what is your opinion of WW Java being something like that ? |
| 11:46:36 | darkblue_B: | ( its a debian/Ubuntu LiveDVD ) |
| 11:48:06 | Bull_[UK]: | well it could be, people have already done pretty neat stuff with it, I 'think' it works on debian etc. we have no official app version out yet though |
| 11:48:40 | Bull_[UK]: | as its an SDK we can build our own though |
| 11:48:58 | darkblue_B: | could the browser be set up with something, that could reliably be the basis of demos/tutorials/ etc ?? |
| 11:49:27 | darkblue_B: | is that some learning curve.. for non-specialists? |
| 11:50:36 | Bull_[UK]: | I believe so, Maurizio set up an offline demo for foss4g, I don't think it is too hard |
| 11:51:59 | Bull_[UK]: | the only niggle at the moment is needing the latest java stuff and up to date graphics card drivers |
| 11:52:19 | darkblue_B: | well.. the pages on the wiki are http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Live_GIS_Disc and Live_GIS_Disc_Packages |
| 11:52:20 | sigq: | Title: Live GIS Disc - OSGeo Wiki ( at wiki.osgeo.org ) |
| 11:52:45 | darkblue_B: | this is a new project.. I dont think the new Java stuff requirement is a problem |
| 11:53:05 | darkblue_B: | up to date graphics card drivers.. thats supplied by the system that boots, yes? |
| 11:53:31 | darkblue_B: | perhaps that is not a problem.. as long as a reasonable range of hardware is supported |
| 11:54:42 | Bull_[UK]: | yeah, it should be fie on most hardware, some intel gpu's are iffy but whats new |
| 11:54:53 | Bull_[UK]: | fie\fine |
| 11:55:35 | darkblue_B: | well I dont know what to say other than I think it would be a great thing.. I am not an expert on WW, nor Java.. so I am left as just an advocate of sorts |
| 11:56:11 | darkblue_B: | if you care to, you could make a note on one of the project wiki pages of some kind |
| 11:56:49 | darkblue_B: | its an "opportunity" ;- ) |
| 11:57:34 | Bull_[UK]: | I'll poke the Java devs and see what think, personally I love the idea of spreading free geobrowsers, hopefully NASA will see this as a good opportunity too |
| 11:57:52 | Bull_[UK]: | I'll check the wiki |
| 11:57:55 | darkblue_B: | I speak with Patrick off and on.. |
| 11:58:05 | Bull_[UK]: | cool : ) |
| 12:06:25 | : | * nhv wonders why a 3 button mouse requirement is a problem on a DVD for Linux ?? |
| 12:06:42 | Bull_[UK]: | hehe |
| 12:07:19 | TylerM: | maybe laptop users don't like it nhv ? |
| 12:07:34 | darkblue_B: | because enough people dont have one |
| 12:07:51 | nhv: | huh |
| 12:07:56 | darkblue_B: | nhv just put an onscreen nav floating window and its solved! |
| 12:08:13 | nhv: | contributions graciously accepted |
| 12:08:29 | darkblue_B: | Bull_[UK]: you beat me to the edit on the wiki ;- ) |
| 12:08:38 | Bull_[UK]: | ; ) |
| 12:09:02 | darkblue_B: | nhv just another opportunity knocking to get out of Obscuristan |
| 12:09:18 | nhv: | actually one can assign any key or mouse combination to any of the Planets 'actions' in a config file |
| 12:09:34 | darkblue_B: | Bull_[UK]: I wrote a note to Patrick |
| 12:10:39 | Bull_[UK]: | darkblue_B cool, I'll give him a heads up later too, he tends to need nudging ; ) |
| 12:10:53 | nhv: | so one could assign 'z' +vertical mouse drag to zoom out and 'Z'+vertical mouse drag to zoom in |
| 12:11:44 | darkblue_B: | the idea is, that out of the box, a large number of users can use it immediately |
| 12:11:57 | nhv: | huh on a debian box |
| 12:12:06 | nhv: | anyway |
| 12:12:26 | darkblue_B: | with a GUI, that means an "intuitive" graphical interface of some kind |
| 12:12:43 | darkblue_B: | not debian, Ubuntu. they have windows and icons and stuff |
| 12:13:25 | : | * nhv thinks DB is just indoctrinated by his use of GE :- ) |
| 12:14:30 | nhv: | watching kids play with ossimPlanet and no instruction with a 3 button mouse leads me to believe it is a very intuitive interface |
| 12:14:41 | darkblue_B: | nhv no, really.. I studed sfwr design to build comercial GUI apps on the Mac, before Windows 3.1 |
| 12:15:04 | bitner: | kids are much smarter than fogies when it comes to any computer interface |
| 12:15:16 | nhv: | hehe DB I was programming UIs before there Windows was :- ) |
| 12:15:45 | nhv: | commercially |
| 12:16:00 | darkblue_B: | I take nothng away from you personally nhv, really |
| 12:16:12 | darkblue_B: | this is another matter |
| 12:16:18 | : | * Bull_[UK] reckons nhv wrote his first UI on an abacus ; ) |
| 12:16:39 | : | * nhv often thinks that Mac users live in their own UI :- ) |
| 12:16:48 | Bull_[UK]: | heh |
| 12:16:54 | nhv: | I have a vry hard time using a Mac |
| 12:17:10 | darkblue_B: | well they used to, until 98% of the world adopted its ways |
| 12:17:13 | nhv: | except thru an X terminal |
| 12:17:29 | nhv: | but that is just me |
| 12:17:51 | darkblue_B: | Undo/Cut/Copy/Paste... Z/X/C/V |
| 12:17:54 | darkblue_B: | hmmm |
| 12:19:03 | TylerM: | using macbook with ossimplanet nav controls is painful ;- ) |
| 12:19:10 | TylerM: | who invented this one button mouse anyway? :P |
| 12:19:29 | TylerM: | i have an external mouse just for ossimplanet : ) hehe |
| 12:19:32 | nhv: | just use a usb mouse :- ) |
| 12:19:36 | nhv: | :- ) |
| 12:19:38 | TylerM: | i better hack that config file before I'm told to .lol |
| 12:20:22 | nhv: | I guess we should put a hideable set of scroll bars or some such for the rodent challenged |
| 12:21:06 | nhv: | but honestly I had no idea requiring the worlds most common mouse would be such a big issue |
| 12:21:48 | nhv: | can one even buy anything other then a 3 button mouse thesedays except from Apple ? |
| 12:22:09 | darkblue_B: | I dont understand.. I have a USB mouse with two buttons and a scroll wheel. is that what you mean? |
| 12:22:18 | nhv: | that should work |
| 12:23:18 | nhv: | I bet there is a way to get the scroll wheel to act as the middle button |
| 12:23:55 | nhv: | not sure if qt would interpret pressing both buttons as the middle button or not |
| 12:24:05 | bitner: | usually if you push down on the scroll wheel it acts as middle button |
| 12:24:11 | nhv: | exactly |
| 12:24:27 | darkblue_B: | I dont think this mouse scrol wheel pushes down |
| 12:24:34 | darkblue_B: | that sounds like a button |
| 12:26:13 | darkblue_B: | ok, I just tried it.. OSSIM 1.7.0 |
| 12:26:31 | darkblue_B: | no combination of mouse actions that I can see is navigating |
| 12:27:07 | darkblue_B: | stock 2-button mouse with scroll wheel, a freebie with the Microsoft name on it |
| 12:27:32 | darkblue_B: | I am happy to be shown wrong, btw |
| 12:28:39 | darkblue_B: | the same scroll wheel is scrolling this IRC chat for me, no prefs touched.. on this Mac |
| 12:29:10 | nhv: | can you spin the globe left pressed drag |
| 12:29:31 | darkblue_B: | ok, I am wrong |
| 12:29:38 | darkblue_B: | left button is working |
| 12:29:56 | nhv: | try right button |
| 12:30:04 | nhv: | drag vertically |
| 12:30:32 | darkblue_B: | ok, yes.. I missed that.. this mouse is working |
| 12:30:52 | darkblue_B: | so.. its really single button Macs, and laptops then |
| 12:30:52 | nhv: | now try the same holding shift key at same time |
| 12:31:10 | darkblue_B: | no secret combos, thats not fair game |
| 12:31:21 | nhv: | they are all in the user manual |
| 12:31:29 | darkblue_B: | no manual |
| 12:31:35 | darkblue_B: | out of the box GUI |
| 12:31:39 | darkblue_B: | thats the game |
| 12:31:41 | nhv: | huh look in docs subdir |
| 12:32:04 | darkblue_B: | ok, dont listen to me... this is what populated the world with sfwr |
| 12:32:30 | darkblue_B: | lots of smart people can get training in all kinds of things |
| 12:32:46 | nhv: | I don't have a Mac so I don't really know where the user manual would be |
| 12:33:28 | nhv: | but copy at http://ossim.telascience.org/ossimdata/MacOSX/ossimPlanetUsers.pdf |
| 12:38:02 | ominoverde: | pb: ! |
| 12:38:06 | ominoverde: | no esto! |
| 12:38:15 | ominoverde: | esto aqui #osgeo-es |
| 12:39:49 | frankie: | darkblue_B: it would be nice having a summary of the bof available to send it on d-gis/osgeo lists |
| 12:40:20 | darkblue_B: | what list frankie? |
| 12:40:46 | frankie: | http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/pkg-grass-general |
| 12:40:48 | sigq: | Title: Pkg-grass-general Info Page ( at lists.alioth.debian.org ) |
| 12:40:50 | frankie: | dunno for osgeo |
| 12:41:32 | frankie: | at least if some infrastructure needs to be requested to them tracking things could be useful |
| 12:42:02 | darkblue_B: | I am looking at http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo |
| 12:42:03 | sigq: | Title: lists.osgeo.org Mailing Lists ( at lists.osgeo.org ) |
| 13:35:21 | crschmidt: | pabs3: someone would have to care in order for anything ot change with regar to OL's freeness |
| 13:39:55 | tomkralidis_: | has anyone seen http://fsoss.senecac.on.ca/2008/ |
| 13:39:56 | sigq: | Title: FSOSS 08 | Welcome to the 7th Annual Seneca Free Software and Open Source Symposium ( at fsoss.senecac.on.ca ) |
| 13:41:58 | tomkralidis_: | it looks like they are still accepting proposals. |
| 13:42:58 | tomkralidis_: | and there's nothing geospatial on there |
| 13:44:22 | tomkralidis_: | might be neat to present some foss4g stuff if they are still accepting. I live pretty close to the event, and woudn't mind presenting if we can put something together. | </