| 01:38:39 | CIA-12: | osgeo: sab * r1463 /foss4g/2009/website/ ( 2 files in 2 dirs ): updated the new date for registrations |
| 01:38:40 | sigq: | osgeofeed: Changeset [1463]: updated the new date for registrations <http://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/changeset/1463> |
| 01:54:25 | CIA-12: | osgeo: camerons * r1464 /foss4g/2009/website/images/ ( web-banner-fancy.jpg web-banner-square.jpg Thumbs.db ): copied foss4g logos into the website/images dir |
| 01:54:25 | sigq: | osgeofeed: Changeset [1464]: copied foss4g logos into the website/images dir <http://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/changeset/1464> |
| 02:57:14 | sigq: | osgeofeed: Changeset [1465]: resized the flags <http://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/changeset/1465> |
| 02:57:33 | CIA-12: | osgeo: sab * r1465 /foss4g/2009/website/ ( 47 files in 5 dirs ): resized the flags |
| 02:58:57 | simeon: | I'm having some trouble getting the gdal affine geotransform stuff to work, can anyone help? |
| 04:18:04 | CIA-12: | osgeo: sab * r1466 /foss4g/2009/website/ ( 7 files in 6 dirs ): added tutorials, workshops, speakers |
| 04:18:35 | sigq: | osgeofeed: Changeset [1466]: added tutorials, workshops, speakers <http://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/changeset/1466> |
| 04:18:51 | w0lfie_: | in #csharp |
| 07:57:25 | kstreith: | kstreithVp,ry4htrsy |
| 08:43:08 | sigq: | osgeofeed: Ticket #351 ( task created ): Update uuid of MapGuide SVN mirror to match main SVN <http://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/ticket/351> |
| 08:43:31 | mloskot: | svn st |
| 11:34:37 | TylerM: | oh man, that's quite a lot of chatter on gsoc mentor list :[ |
| 11:35:32 | FrankW: | no kidding. I had to setup a rule to /dev/null it. |
| 11:35:59 | FrankW: | I'm trusting that Wolf will let us know if we need to know something. :- ) |
| 11:36:01 | TylerM: | good plan.. I have a heartattack every morning : ) |
| 11:36:06 | TylerM: | maybe some people are just lonely ;- ) |
| 11:38:02 | bitner: | how many students for OSGeo so far? |
| 11:39:09 | TylerM: | 13 so far i think |
| 11:41:36 | FrankW: | lots of interest in the router/geocoder area as I understand it. |
| 11:42:12 | bitner: | FrankW: very good, I'd personally love to see some action in that area |
| 11:42:31 | bitner: | for geocoder, I take it there are willing mentors lined up? |
| 11:42:42 | FrankW: | I'm wondering if the students will end up being kind of scattershot - duplicating stuff that is already done -r ather than really advancing stuff. |
| 11:43:35 | FrankW: | I wish I had a deeper attention span. I'd like to recommend http://www.govtech.com/gt/articles/633927 but I'm having trouble focusing long enough to read it through first. |
| 11:43:36 | sigq: | Title: Maine Invests in Collaborative Web Mapping ( at www.govtech.com ) |
| 11:46:48 | bitner: | nice article |
| 11:47:57 | bitner: | A very fast reliable orthoimagery WMS hosted by one of our state agencies in MN has done more to push SOA in MN than anything else |
| 11:49:10 | bitner: | using their home grown mysql based image server |
| 11:49:14 | : | * FrankW emerges from 120 seconds of concentrated focus on one topic! |
| 11:49:33 | : | * bitner wishes for just 10 seconds of focus today |
| 11:50:58 | TylerM: | check your pulse frankw ; ) |
| 14:16:37 | TylerM: | Can you see this? http://www.osgeo.org/tyler/brochure |
| 14:16:39 | sigq: | Title: OSGeo Brochure | OSGeo.org ( at www.osgeo.org ) |
| 14:16:42 | TylerM: | thx sigq : ) |
| 14:16:50 | TylerM: | curious how well it works for anyone watching |
| 14:17:09 | TylerM: | it's been browser nightmare day for me.. time for a reboot I think :( |
| 14:17:42 | j03lar50n: | no worky for me |
| 14:17:47 | j03lar50n: | ie and ff |
| 14:18:56 | TylerM: | hmm what happens then? |
| 14:18:58 | TylerM: | thx j03lar50n |
| 14:19:43 | j03lar50n: | ie7, and ff3 to be more specific |
| 14:21:15 | TylerM: | you see my text, then nothing below it? |
| 14:35:12 | darkblue_B: | geez thats fancy |
| 14:35:21 | darkblue_B: | Safari |
| 14:35:38 | darkblue_B: | WebKit Nightly / Mac actually |
| 14:37:18 | darkblue_B: | FF3 Mac also working fine |
| 14:38:43 | darkblue_B: | FF3 Ubuntu linux says "additional plugins are required to view this page".. flash or flash equiv choices are then shown |
| 14:39:10 | darkblue_B: | gnash, swfdec or adobes |
| 14:42:22 | darkblue_B: | yep, works fine on FF3 linux for me |
| 14:44:36 | j03lar50n: | hrm, my ubuntu VM didn't even give me the choices - could view page in ie7/ff3 on windoze |
| 14:44:58 | j03lar50n: | *choices of plugins |
| 15:34:55 | CameronShorter: | Hi all, I'm looking to describe a compelling business case for sponsoring FOSS4G. In particular, what people will be at FOSS4G who represent big government programs? |
| 15:34:55 | sigq: | osgeofeed: Ticket #351 ( task closed ): Update uuid of MapGuide SVN mirror to match main SVN <http://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/ticket/351#comment:1> |
| 15:35:14 | CameronShorter: | Any attendees from INSPIRE? |
| 15:35:30 | CameronShorter: | Or the Canadian, US, or Asian equivalents? |
| 15:47:48 | darkblue_B: | CameronShorter: much of what has been written about OSS in general can be applied to Geo in specific.. |
| 15:48:11 | darkblue_B: | ( lookig at bookshelf ) |
| 15:48:37 | darkblue_B: | The Success of Open Source by Weber is good if wordy |
| 15:49:04 | CameronShorter: | darkblue_B, I'm looking more for case study type stuff: |
| 15:49:11 | FrankW: | I think CameronShorter is hoping for some specific examples of who will be attending FOSS4G to impress potential sponsors. |
| 15:49:37 | darkblue_B: | chicken and egg! |
| 15:49:54 | CameronShorter: | "Joe Blow, from the XXX ministry of YYY in Country B, who sits on top of XXX $$$" plans to be coming to the conference. |
| 15:49:57 | darkblue_B: | great hollywood event makers just lie like a rug :D |
| 15:50:42 | darkblue_B: | this is high sorcery .. |
| 15:50:42 | CameronShorter: | Some examples of big names who attended previous conferences would be a good start. |
| 15:51:04 | darkblue_B: | but seriously, the political pressures and developments around climate change cant be understated |
| 15:51:37 | darkblue_B: | the wall has cracked.. I can tell you that the academics I am running into |
| 15:52:01 | darkblue_B: | among them they are coming out of the woodwork to have some kind of modeling or predicion or mapping project |
| 15:52:21 | darkblue_B: | politically, we have the Western Climate Initiative here in the US |
| 15:52:26 | darkblue_B: | and Canada |
| 15:52:36 | darkblue_B: | otherwise known as Carbon Markets |
| 15:52:57 | darkblue_B: | its just too big to have ESRI sell and train everyone |
| 15:53:16 | CameronShorter: | Are they coming to FOSS4G, and do they have big $$? |
| 15:53:37 | darkblue_B: | well, you are endeavoring to make a persuasive case |
| 15:53:52 | darkblue_B: | I have to say I did a graduate program in some of this |
| 15:53:57 | darkblue_B: | its not a small topic |
| 15:54:06 | darkblue_B: | in short there are stages of persuasion |
| 15:54:15 | darkblue_B: | the very first is to let them know it exists |
| 15:54:46 | darkblue_B: | thats partly why common companies can spend far more oney than we can easily grasp, on an ad that simply has a color image |
| 15:54:49 | darkblue_B: | and the product name |
| 15:55:03 | darkblue_B: | so people know it exists.. that is the huge first step |
| 15:55:37 | darkblue_B: | next, there are several qualities that make it approachable, once people *and companies* know it exists |
| 15:56:05 | darkblue_B: | showing to prospective sponsors that you are doing this, makes you desirable to sponsor |
| 15:56:44 | darkblue_B: | when we did the 5th International Symposum on Digital Earth, many many formal govt and prvate agencies showed up |
| 15:57:18 | darkblue_B: | mainly through formal connections I imagine. Our director was the former head of UNEP |
| 15:57:44 | darkblue_B: | and had a huge rolodex.. so we got govt and military and the major corporpate people |
| 15:57:58 | darkblue_B: | though his work was far from spotless, he did do that well |
| 15:58:21 | CameronShorter: | darkblue_B, do you have any connections that you could use to invite some big names to FOSS4G to present? |
| 15:58:24 | darkblue_B: | I for my part did "cold calls" to several hundred Academic reasearch institutions |
| 15:59:29 | darkblue_B: | CameronShorter: I am only informally affiliated.. others have strings to pull.. I just have a buch of insights :-/ |
| 16:00:08 | darkblue_B: | I can speak knowledgeably about really good outreach, thats my contriution |
| 16:00:20 | darkblue_B: | b |
| 16:01:22 | CameronShorter: | ok |
| 16:11:52 | darkblue_B: | didnt the political polarities of NZ and AU switch recently? |
| 16:12:09 | darkblue_B: | NZ was heavily present at ISDE5, but they have a new govt |
| 16:12:23 | darkblue_B: | meanwhile your AU govt changed strongly |
| 16:12:46 | darkblue_B: | its in your country, your govt agencies are a strong place to start I'd say |
| 16:13:05 | darkblue_B: | I'd also say the nationas that have announced a strategic support of OSS |
| 16:13:28 | darkblue_B: | the obvious being Brazil, but I dont know a thing about Brazil |
| 16:14:40 | darkblue_B: | the core strong contributers to making OSS .. where they are geographically located |
| 16:19:58 | darkblue_B: | I'd think you would have to have a Japan strategy.. one way or the other |
| 16:21:22 | darkblue_B: | I dont trust the govt of China.. I have serious personal political issues with the govt of China.. you willhave to fend them off no doubt, since they have shown up in force at every single Geo science anyhting I have been to |
| 16:21:55 | darkblue_B: | ISDE6 is in Beijing.. dont go.. thats my opinion on that |
| 16:23:00 | darkblue_B: | big names.. who is a big name in Geo? You mean like RIchard Gere the movie star ? probably not... no offense I am seriously thinking about what a big name means |
| 16:24:17 | darkblue_B: | you have to have a Microsoft strategy, one way or the other, too |
| 16:25:49 | darkblue_B: | World Wildlife Fund and others like that? The IMF ? these are real candidates |
| 16:26:21 | darkblue_B: | I think geo is of huge interest.. thats why I am here.. they might think that too.. |
| 18:58:48 | hobu: | any proponents of http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSGeo_Cartographic_Library here? |
| 18:58:50 | sigq: | Title: OSGeo Cartographic Library - OSGeo Wiki ( at wiki.osgeo.org ) |
| 19:08:07 | : | * springmeyer is an interested bystander |
| 19:08:19 | springmeyer: | headed out now hobu, but back later on |
| 19:09:22 | wildintellect: | same here - you should probably poke TylerM |
| 19:11:04 | hobu: | I want whomever wants it to happen to defend why it should exist |
| 19:11:06 | hobu: | : ) |
| 19:11:34 | hobu: | and tell me why it doesn't already exist if it were so needed |
| 19:11:41 | wildintellect: | ah |
| 19:11:53 | wildintellect: | to be honest it barely exists in the commercial world it seems |
| 19:12:12 | wildintellect: | and most pro-GIS people just use Arc |
| 19:12:30 | wildintellect: | it is an issue that prevents many people from using QGIS or GRASS |
| 19:13:19 | wildintellect: | and QGIS is top issues on the todo list involve symbology and labeling |
| 19:13:37 | hobu: | but why one uber library? why not grass/qgis/udig/etc all implement their styling, labeling, etc themselves or using pieces of other code? |
| 19:14:02 | wildintellect: | oh I don't necessarily agree that it should be a library either |
| 19:14:08 | hobu: | I just don't see how this can be successful without an application backing it up |
| 19:14:18 | wildintellect: | I think all of the pieces should implement SLD coverage |
| 19:14:52 | wildintellect: | maybe since none of them have managed to find a solution and one shared solution would take less work |
| 19:14:56 | hobu: | for example, the wiki page talks about mapserver's labeling engine ... mapserver's labeling engine is the way it is because of what mapserver aspires to be -- a decent quality, fast-as-possible map rendering engine for the web |
| 19:15:02 | wildintellect: | theoretically.... |
| 19:15:08 | hobu: | it doesn't make sense that its label placement engine would be dropped into qgis. |
| 19:15:27 | hobu: | but even if it did, what incentive is there for mapserver or qgis to go to some other library to use it? |
| 19:15:40 | hobu: | ah, there he is : ) |
| 19:16:20 | wildintellect: | I think the goal is a label engine for desktop GIS that results in high quality cartography |
| 19:16:34 | wildintellect: | which is not the intent of existing lib like mapserver as you point out |
| 19:16:58 | hobu: | spatialguru: can you make the elevator pitch for http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSGeo_Cartographic_Library why should it exist, and if the need is so great, why doesn't it *already* exist? |
| 19:16:59 | sigq: | Title: OSGeo Cartographic Library - OSGeo Wiki ( at wiki.osgeo.org ) |
| 19:17:19 | spatialguru: | hi guys |
| 19:17:41 | spatialguru: | library is probably not the right term in fact |
| 19:18:05 | spatialguru: | The main barrier is from real world common trouble using an FOSS |
| 19:18:37 | spatialguru: | most projects have very limited printing capabilities, so they cannot be used seriously in "industrial" ( in my case ) environments. |
| 19:19:14 | spatialguru: | Web mapping components are quite well advanced of course, but they are for speed, small size, etc.. not for punching out a 600dpi 32" wide print job. |
| 19:19:24 | spatialguru: | This is where Arc* has the market, right? |
| 19:19:28 | wildintellect: | yes |
| 19:19:41 | wildintellect: | daily plotting is what most Arc jockeys I know do |
| 19:19:51 | spatialguru: | So while I'm all for QGIS, udig, gvSIG, etc. to make a kick-butt layout and print toolset.. |
| 19:20:13 | spatialguru: | it just isn't happening as fast as we need. |
| 19:20:30 | hobu: | MapServer will have scalable rendering at 6.0 ( and a cairo backend too ), but that's a side point. |
| 19:20:49 | wildintellect: | partly because most of the programmers on those projects aren't graphic rendering gurus |
| 19:20:52 | spatialguru: | So this is a generalised solution for taking, for example, a mapserver config file, or a QGIS project file, or some sort of GRASS layout - Pipe it through some scripts and make what is needed. |
| 19:21:12 | hobu: | who is *we*? |
| 19:21:56 | spatialguru: | me and others listed as interested parties on the wiki page I guess |
| 19:22:09 | wildintellect: | I think he meant the FOSS desktop stack in general |
| 19:22:34 | spatialguru: | "we" is also the people I advocate to.. who retort that they still need a proprietary part to meet their printing demands. |
| 19:23:12 | spatialguru: | I fully expect that the solution will be to reuse an existing package, but to lay out a standard way of getting the config. info shoved through in a simplified way. |
| 19:23:48 | wildintellect: | I really expect inkscape to yield some good information and idea |
| 19:24:06 | spatialguru: | e.g. what is needed to make the map? layer styling info ( eg SLD ), data source pointers, layout component definition.. |
| 19:24:14 | hobu: | I guess i'm in the pramsey camp when it comes to marketing open source gis ... fight the next battle( s ) ( on the cloud, server side, etc ) instead of the last one( s ) ( desktop gis ) |
| 19:24:16 | spatialguru: | then also what sort of output format, resolution, scale, etc |
| 19:24:20 | hobu: | SLD is not enough |
| 19:24:51 | spatialguru: | sure, then what's the gap? if there is one, then how can it be filled. |
| 19:24:53 | wildintellect: | that's fine a good, but it doesn't solve the reality of what people are doing on a daily basis and what is taught as GIS in schools |
| 19:25:21 | spatialguru: | yeah that's my particular interest and goal.. put a tool in students hands, so they can then use it in consulting industry, etc. |
| 19:25:36 | bitner: | gap is a simple tool to make a good quality map |
| 19:25:43 | wildintellect: | I agree most GIS will move to the web - but a lot of what GIS analysts get paid to be the artist to make final renderings |
| 19:25:50 | spatialguru: | I don't mind two camps.. but you won't see me asking why we shuold bother doing server side cloud stuff : ) |
| 19:26:04 | spatialguru: | lots to do on all sides! |
| 19:26:11 | wildintellect: | they are on par with people who get paid full time to do illustrator and photoshop |
| 19:26:59 | wildintellect: | hmm, have we thought about making mapserver or mapnik easier to use as a desktop map production tool |
| 19:27:04 | spatialguru: | I wouldn't mind if it was seen as a GRASS project or a QGIS project, but my hope is that there would be wider interest from a student that might not care particularly about either, but about the problem in general. |
| 19:27:49 | spatialguru: | hobu: making any more sense to you? |
| 19:28:17 | hobu: | slightly. I'm not convinced though : ) |
| 19:28:34 | spatialguru: | wildintellect: I forgot that you would be fighting a similar battle as I do re: the training/incorporation of new tools into industry |
| 19:28:37 | hobu: | and i'm really not convinced that exploring developing a new project makes a good SoC effort |
| 19:28:53 | spatialguru: | think of it as a new feature of grass then : ) |
| 19:29:01 | wildintellect: | or QGIS |
| 19:29:24 | wildintellect: | label engine is very high on the discussion list |
| 19:29:26 | spatialguru: | yeah, i've talked to several folks from both projects over the past two years on this idea.. danmo too had some great feedback.. |
| 19:29:32 | wildintellect: | and SLD incorporation |
| 19:29:35 | spatialguru: | I just didn't have time to do anything on it myself, or I would : ) |
| 19:29:53 | wildintellect: | they saw some label engine in Europe last summer they really wanted to try |
| 19:30:06 | spatialguru: | Individually, I just don't see any 1 project spending enough time and energy to get it right, though granted there are some good starts. |
| 19:30:16 | hobu: | GRASS has had 25 years to match arcplot and it hasn't yet. why? because no one's saw enough need to do so |
| 19:30:28 | spatialguru: | I think doing good research and development is a great way to encourage students : ) |
| 19:30:40 | wildintellect: | I would do it, if I thought I had the coding skills |
| 19:30:44 | spatialguru: | wolf and markus would know more about that particular question |
| 19:31:16 | wildintellect: | but I can barely cobble a python plugin together |
| 19:31:38 | spatialguru: | I'd guess it's an error to say no one saw enough need to do so... it just didn't tickle the volunteers' fancies |
| 19:31:43 | spatialguru: | my guess |
| 19:31:52 | wildintellect: | and I've had bum luck converting cs students to geostuff |
| 19:32:55 | spatialguru: | hobu: so you think it is somehow a waste of time to pursue this? at what cost to us if it is? |
| 19:33:26 | hobu: | I think it is a waste of an SoC slot |
| 19:33:48 | spatialguru: | oh, are we limited? |
| 19:33:56 | hobu: | if it were to get one. We shouldn't be developing new projects with SoC slots |
| 19:34:25 | wildintellect: | I guess we're of a differing opinion in that we think it's a QGIS/GRASS add on |
| 19:34:30 | spatialguru: | but it's aimed at extending capabilities of existing projects.. hmm |
| 19:34:44 | spatialguru: | precisely |
| 19:35:19 | hobu: | http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSGeo_Cartographic_Library is very poorly named then : ) |
| 19:35:19 | spatialguru: | wolf thought it fit the soc mold well enough, but if there are a few people suggesting to push it toward a particular project, then that's no problem. |
| 19:35:21 | sigq: | Title: OSGeo Cartographic Library - OSGeo Wiki ( at wiki.osgeo.org ) |
| 19:35:33 | spatialguru: | heh - well, one hopes you read more than the title ;- ) |
| 19:35:48 | spatialguru: | i think it started out with maybe a different idea in mind |
| 19:36:15 | spatialguru: | i've been trying to refactor a bit.. but didn't get as far as I like to |
| 19:36:22 | hobu: | having lived through Python Cartographic Library, I'm very skeptical |
| 19:36:29 | spatialguru: | ohhhh |
| 19:36:37 | hobu: | trying to do a lot means you end up sucking at all of it |
| 19:36:39 | spatialguru: | i never made that connection |
| 19:37:03 | spatialguru: | i think 're-use' is an appropriate mantra here |
| 19:37:23 | spatialguru: | and there are a handful of options to choose from now |
| 19:37:33 | spatialguru: | springmeyer will make sure we use mapnik ;- ) |
| 19:38:34 | wildintellect: | mapnik/QGIS plugin |
| 19:38:40 | wildintellect: | hmm... |
| 19:38:48 | spatialguru: | natural fit, i agree |
| 19:39:12 | spatialguru: | Is PCL useful at this point? |
| 19:39:18 | hobu: | no |
| 19:39:43 | hobu: | it was pieced out into items like Shapely, and Rtree, etc. |
| 19:40:01 | hobu: | which allowed items that had usefulness to have focus |
| 19:40:22 | hobu: | and live beyond their heritage as a giant ball of code that tried to do too much |
| 19:41:27 | spatialguru: | from what you can tell, is the goal the same here? I'm not too familiar with PCL's goals |
| 19:41:44 | spatialguru: | though I always thought it was a reaction to mapscript limitations |
| 19:42:45 | hobu: | it tried to be much more than mapscript. The idea was you had a generic library that you could write code to and ( theoretically ) not have to worry about backend things how it was rendered, how the data came in, etc. |
| 19:43:26 | spatialguru: | ah okay |
| 19:43:37 | hobu: | It tried to be OGR, MapServer, GEOS, and shapelib/qix all at once. |
| 19:43:39 | spatialguru: | I don't exactly see how shapely and rtree came to the forefront from that.. hmm |
| 19:43:51 | spatialguru: | cool : ) |
| 19:44:18 | spatialguru: | Maybe this project would be better named OSGeo Print Engine or similar |
| 19:44:27 | spatialguru: | biab.. nice chatting |
| 19:44:35 | hobu: | OSGeo Canvas |