| 05:09:42 | ajturner: | anyone know how to pull apart an ESRI lyr file? |
| 05:37:41 | milovanderlinden: | ajturner: Is this of any help? http://www.lib.ncsu.edu/gis/formats.html |
| 05:37:42 | sigq: | Title: Geospatial Data Formats: GIS: NCSU Libraries ( at www.lib.ncsu.edu ) |
| 05:38:20 | milovanderlinden: | I have no idea if a .lyr is binary or ascii |
| 05:39:33 | milovanderlinden: | But it seems to me that if you have a modern esri desktop, you can find out the shapes that are referenced from the lyr ( pronounced: Liar? ) |
| 06:27:39 | ajturner: | milovanderlinden: that is a description of lyr |
| 06:27:42 | ajturner: | but not a format definition |
| 06:27:59 | ajturner: | as I said on #gdal and at AAG: "and it's becoming very concerning - more people are asking about it and using it and yet none of the OSGEo tools work with it" |
| 06:28:13 | ajturner: | re: File Geodatabases - and other esri new proprietary formats |
| 06:37:27 | crschmidt: | ajturner: I have not seen any open source code which reads .lyr files ( to further confirm your suspicions ) |
| 06:37:37 | crschmidt: | There is some limited support for reading the ( older, I believe ) mxd files. |
| 06:40:54 | chippy: | from what i recall a lyr file saves the symbology etc for a data layer - so do we have a standard way of representing this, or, have we an output format to convert it to? |
| 06:41:15 | ajturner: | SLD |
| 06:41:16 | ajturner: | Mapnik |
| 06:41:21 | milovanderlinden: | mxd files can also be opened as mdb ms access databases |
| 06:41:51 | crschmidt: | milovanderlinden: Er, MXD files are map style descriptions, right? |
| 06:42:12 | crschmidt: | chippy: SLD is the standard |
| 06:42:24 | ajturner: | chippy: my alternative would be Cascadenick ( mapnik ) pointing to Shapefile/Spatialite |
| 06:42:26 | crschmidt: | ajturner: mapnik is not a standard anymore than 'mapfile' is |
| 06:42:50 | crschmidt: | Which I would feel pretty ugly calling a standard, personally. |
| 06:43:30 | milovanderlinden: | I agree with crschmidt on that. mapnik is not following conventions on SLD but has it's own taste of a mixture of sld and layer definitions |
| 06:43:32 | crschmidt: | It is likely that .lyr -- like Mapnik and Mapfiles and everything else -- is actually more than SLD describes; I believe that the OWS context stuff was trying to be a solution for that sort of. |
| 06:43:45 | crschmidt: | But I never got the impression that it was a good one. |
| 06:43:55 | crschmidt: | And I could be wrong about what it was even trying to solve. |
| 06:44:48 | milovanderlinden: | the people at geoserver might be able to give some feedback on that. They have done pretty well so far implementing SLD and they have some workarounds for limitations. Perhaps it would be good to consult them and put up a list of where SLD might fall short |
| 06:45:06 | crschmidt: | Well, SLD is a description of styling. |
| 06:45:10 | crschmidt: | Not of interaction with datasources. |
| 06:45:11 | ajturner: | crschmidt: more than a standard - it's open |
| 06:45:12 | milovanderlinden: | I know |
| 06:45:33 | crschmidt: | So it doens't 'fall short' of its goals; it just isn't solving the same problem. |
| 06:45:48 | crschmidt: | ajturner: Too many pronouns, not enough antecedents |
| 06:46:07 | ajturner: | sorry - got marauded in my office |
| 06:46:28 | ajturner: | Mapnik & .map aren't standards by any means - they are commonly used, open formats that can be transformed by tools |
| 06:46:40 | ajturner: | they are nice b/c they are styling that points to data |
| 06:46:43 | ajturner: | I think SLD does that too? |
| 06:47:09 | ajturner: | but my concern and distaste for LYR and FGDB is that they are *closed* and not transformable |
| 06:47:10 | milovanderlinden: | In practice, SLD has it limits when it comes to what you can render. For instance, with geoserver we had to put up a workaround to display graphic labels with a text label on top ( as with highway signs ). SLD has no definition for that |
| 06:47:28 | ajturner: | you have to own a single-vendor, proprietary, windows based system to utilize |
| 06:47:57 | ajturner: | agree that as more eyeballs/tools come to SLD, there will be clear ways to improve it |
| 06:48:05 | ajturner: | look at the discussion on Restful wms-t |
| 06:48:13 | ajturner: | or wmts |
| 06:48:15 | ajturner: | whichever it is |
| 06:48:51 | crschmidt: | ajturner: SLD isn't styling that points to data, as I understnad it; the 'points to data' isn't ther.e |
| 06:48:59 | crschmidt: | It's the equivilant of <Rule> blocks in Mapnik without <Layer> blocks. |
| 06:49:17 | crschmidt: | Actually, no. |
| 06:49:24 | crschmidt: | It's <layer> blocks without <DataSource> blocks. |
| 06:49:57 | crschmidt: | Bah, wrong again. I was right the first time |
| 06:50:03 | : | * crschmidt had to look at a mapnik file to remember how it was layed out |
| 06:50:37 | crschmidt: | So yeah, SLD is the equivilant of Mapnik <Style> blocks. and works reasonably well for most simple cases, and everything falls down in the more complex cases because no one can agree on anything when design is by committee ) |
| 06:50:41 | crschmidt: | : ) |
| 06:50:51 | crschmidt: | But SLD is just XML; it is extensible. |
| 06:50:58 | milovanderlinden: | the fact that mapnik and mapserver do not require SLD to render beautiful maps causes that their communities are not triggered to comply to implement SLD fully as a standard. For as far as I know, geoserver is the only community that is really involved with SLD at the moment. |
| 06:51:18 | crschmidt: | GeoServer and OpenLayers |
| 06:51:25 | milovanderlinden: | Yes indeed. |
| 06:51:26 | crschmidt: | ( hand in hand because of investment by OpenGeo ) |
| 06:51:40 | crschmidt: | ( I personally couldn't give two shits about SLD : ) ) |
| 06:58:41 | milovanderlinden: | I personally couldn't give a shit about GIS in general :P |
| 06:58:49 | crschmidt: | Hm |
| 06:58:53 | crschmidt: | I don't think that's true for me right now |
| 06:58:54 | crschmidt: | I like maps |
| 06:58:56 | crschmidt: | they're cool |
| 06:59:02 | crschmidt: | I even built a cool map using OpenLayers the other day |
| 06:59:06 | crschmidt: | I think it's the first time I've ever done that |
| 06:59:08 | ajturner: | carto++ |
| 07:54:11 | darkblue_B: | Hi TylerM |
| 07:54:34 | darkblue_B: | I just sent you an email with the CGIA meeting content |
| 07:54:47 | TylerM: | hi darkblue_B - okay thank you |
| 07:55:48 | darkblue_B: | the other contact is at the GIO's office.. I am going to send a link to a proposal on an interoperable exchange for predictive climate modeling, from a scientist at NASA JPL |
| 07:55:57 | darkblue_B: | other than that I could say whatever there, too |
| 07:56:06 | darkblue_B: | many people had not heard the name OSGeo |
| 07:56:11 | darkblue_B: | so thats a first step |
| 08:47:00 | FrankW: | _wolf_: Is there a list of all OSGeo mentors available somewhere? I'd like to establish who is available for mentoring on the GDAL project. |
| 08:47:06 | FrankW: | Are we supposed to provide you with rankings today? |
| 08:53:11 | darkblue_B: | hi FrankW |
| 08:53:37 | darkblue_B: | TylerM: also OSGeo was invited to present at the USGS HQ in April |
| 08:53:40 | FrankW: | darkblue_B: hi |
| 08:53:44 | FrankW: | Cool! |
| 08:53:54 | darkblue_B: | some kind of open house |
| 08:53:54 | TylerM: | darkblue_B: cool - will you be there? |
| 08:54:02 | darkblue_B: | gotta nail it down |
| 08:54:24 | darkblue_B: | it was the local asprs rep who invited |
| 08:54:54 | darkblue_B: | Becky Morton.. she works with the Berkeley Lab I go to also |
| 08:55:08 | darkblue_B: | May 19th ? |
| 08:55:24 | darkblue_B: | I dont know that date! |
| 08:55:34 | darkblue_B: | she at the conference in Sac now |
| 08:55:38 | darkblue_B: | she's |
| 09:02:37 | FrankW: | Does anyone else know when we are supposed to provide ordered rankings to Wolf by for the SoC? |
| 09:04:50 | nhv: | darkblue_B are you talking about National HQ Reston, Va or Western Region Menlo Park, Ca http://openhouse.wr.usgs.gov/ |
| 09:04:51 | sigq: | Title: USGS Open House 2009 - Home Page ( at openhouse.wr.usgs.gov ) |
| 09:07:28 | darkblue_B: | nhv Menlo Park |
| 09:08:21 | darkblue_B: | aha |
| 09:08:26 | darkblue_B: | neat |
| 09:09:28 | darkblue_B: | she said dont go out of our way .. just use some things that are already done |
| 09:09:42 | darkblue_B: | lets see.. Earth weather in KML I know of :p |
| 09:11:15 | darkblue_B: | someone would have to step up with mapserver because honestly I have no context.. hey, I'm new! |
| 09:11:38 | nhv: | cool fyi officially USGS HQ is Reston Menlo Park is officially "USGS Western Region Offices" |
| 09:11:40 | TylerM: | FrankW: i'm not clear either |
| 09:11:51 | TylerM: | i've already commented on the projects I'm most familiar with |
| 09:12:33 | darkblue_B: | nhv well east coasters are "13 colonies"-centric, so you can imagine that Western Regional is almost the same as Natl HQ to me :D |
| 09:12:51 | FrankW: | lol |
| 09:12:58 | TylerM: | i want to go to menlo park, but that one in NJ instead ;- ) |
| 09:13:29 | nhv: | heh DC might be on the "right coast" but it is the National Center :- ) |
| 09:13:34 | darkblue_B: | apparently, a cabal of Canadians actually run a good portion of the tech :- ) |
| 09:14:46 | bitner: | FrankW: I'm not sure what process Wolf is having you do, but all rankings need to be complete for google by the 15th |
| 09:15:46 | : | * FrankW sinks to looking for wolf's email... |
| 09:16:32 | FrankW: | I see: iscuss among the other mentors of your project about a ranking of |
| 09:16:32 | FrankW: | the proposals. Deliver the final list of ranked proposals with primary |
| 09:16:32 | FrankW: | mentor ( their link ID ) to your friendly OSGeo Administrator no later |
| 09:16:32 | FrankW: | than Tuesday, April 7 19.00 UTC. |
| 09:16:58 | FrankW: | I'll assume the 1900 UTC is a bit soft. |
| 09:18:31 | FrankW: | Now if I only knew conclusively what other GDAL mentors are available! |
| 09:51:15 | wildintellect: | FrankW, I have a draft list of mentors from _wolf_ from last week |
| 09:56:54 | wildintellect: | FrankW, see http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/soc/2009-March/000554.html |
| 09:56:56 | sigq: | Title: [SoC] Mentor List ( at lists.osgeo.org ) |
| 09:58:26 | wildintellect: | oh you'll also want to read the thread above it, as 2 other GDAL mentors added in after that list |
| 10:01:23 | wildintellect: | ajturner, didn't someone say there was an Arc plugin in the works to save an sld from a mxd |
| 10:01:51 | crschmidt: | wildintellect: mxd != lyr |
| 10:02:02 | wildintellect: | I'm aware of that |
| 10:02:27 | wildintellect: | I was refering to the styles within an mxd that's open |
| 10:02:42 | wildintellect: | the same stuff that is saved as a .lyr file |
| 10:02:49 | : | * bitner seems to recall that perhaps jeroen wrote that |
| 10:03:17 | bitner: | or something like that at least |
| 10:04:14 | wildintellect: | someone mentioned it in our AAG panel session 2 weeks ago |
| 10:04:31 | wildintellect: | which ajturner was on |
| 10:07:28 | ajturner: | this ajturner |
| 10:08:01 | ajturner: | I mentioned that I am concerned about the current lack of osgeo tools that work with the current generation of proprietary data |
| 10:08:21 | ajturner: | given the number of times I've been asked from gov't agencies about support for FGDB |
| 10:08:39 | ajturner: | so they're moving to it - and ESRI is pushing them hard |
| 10:08:50 | ajturner: | where certain features in ESRI tools don't work unless you convert to FGDB |
| 10:09:02 | ajturner: | ( and then that eventually gets into LYR files - as part of Layer Packages ) |
| 10:09:32 | wildintellect: | yes, I've experienced what you speak of |
| 10:10:25 | wildintellect: | we're kinda stuck as ESRI has no intention of releasing specs on those formats and anyone with an Arc License violates it if they try to reverse engineer the format |
| 10:12:01 | wildintellect: | the only hint I see is that you can view the data with the free ArcExplorer |
| 10:12:22 | wildintellect: | which would give you a free tool by which to see what you're trying to decipher from the lyr binary |
| 10:23:10 | bitner: | the thing that concerns me more than anything else is emergency response use of ESRI FGDB |
| 10:24:13 | bitner: | This burned us a group of MN GIS folks were helping NGA/Secret Service and the state/local operation centers during the RNC |
| 10:25:07 | bitner: | not just because of interoperability between ESRI vs. Non ESRI, but data that was coming out of 9.2 vs 9.3 were incompatible |
| 10:25:43 | bitner: | if there had been anything go on where time was of the essence, would have been ugly |
| 10:28:06 | wildintellect: | I heard that a big feature of Arc 9.4 will be that you can install it without uninstalling 9.3 |
| 10:28:34 | wildintellect: | that's their solution to compatability |
| 10:29:23 | : | * crschmidt just found out that esri's 'map caches' are different between 9.2 and 9.3 |
| 10:34:07 | CIA-12: | osgeo: tmitchell * r1471 /journal/volume_5/en-us/ ( 43 files in 2 dirs ): basic formatting |
| 10:34:08 | sigq: | osgeofeed: Changeset [1471]: basic formatting <http://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/changeset/1471> |
| 10:42:26 | sigq: | osgeofeed: Changeset [1472]: basic formatting <http://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/changeset/1472> |
| 10:42:31 | CIA-12: | osgeo: tmitchell * r1472 /journal/volume_5/en-us/ ( 4 files in 2 dirs ): basic formatting |
| 14:43:56 | mloskot: | FrankW: ping |
| 14:44:32 | FrankW: | mloskot: ack |
| 14:45:16 | mloskot: | FrankW: you've seen the post by guys from Geodan announcing GGL - geometry library - posted to the discuss ? |
| 14:45:21 | mloskot: | a 1-3 weeks ago |
| 14:45:33 | FrankW: | Yes, I recall it several weeks ago. |
| 14:46:26 | mloskot: | A few days ago I had a chat with team leader of the project, there is an idea to create a mailing list for this project |
| 14:46:36 | mloskot: | do you think it would be possible to hos tit on osgeo? |
| 14:46:36 | FrankW: | at lists.osgeo.org? |
| 14:46:41 | mloskot: | yes |
| 14:46:42 | FrankW: | for sure, no problem. |
| 14:46:47 | mloskot: | cool |
| 14:47:06 | FrankW: | Submit a ticket or email indicating the name of the list, and who ( email ) should be the administrator of it. |
| 14:47:09 | mloskot: | The guy, Barend, is going to ask SAC directly or through ticket |
| 14:47:30 | mloskot: | so he will submit all details I believe |
| 14:47:38 | FrankW: | ok |
| 14:47:44 | mloskot: | cool, thanks! |