| 06:21:36 | FrankW: | Guys, are we still on for a board meeting today? Will we try and do some pre-discussions via IRC before the voice call? |
| 08:00:28 | markusN: | TylerM: is board meeting in 1h from now? |
| 08:00:39 | TylerM: | hi markusN - yes, that is correct |
| 08:00:51 | TylerM: | i only see directors in skype at the moment though |
| 08:01:06 | markusN: | for me it would be better now... |
| 08:01:07 | markusN: | well |
| 08:01:17 | TylerM: | heh - well let me know if you can't make it |
| 08:01:23 | markusN: | ( daylight saving time shift has happened in Europe ) |
| 08:01:32 | markusN: | looks like short |
| 08:01:39 | markusN: | so I should be there |
| 08:01:47 | TylerM: | ok |
| 08:26:16 | TylerM: | hi seven |
| 08:26:40 | TylerM: | FrankW: will you be available for board mtg in 30 minutes? |
| 08:26:45 | FrankW: | TylerM: yes |
| 08:26:52 | TylerM: | okay thanks |
| 08:27:19 | FrankW: | I had hoped to work on the finances stuff with you, but it occurs to me this is a holiday weekend. Would Tuesday be best from your point of view? |
| 08:27:51 | TylerM: | i'm going to take monday off.. so either way |
| 08:28:15 | FrankW: | Either way? Are you suggesting this afternoon would not be a problem for you? |
| 08:28:21 | TylerM: | not a problem |
| 08:28:33 | FrankW: | Cool, then I'd like to spend a bit of time on it today. |
| 08:28:44 | TylerM: | great |
| 08:28:49 | FrankW: | I'm quite confused about Ken's last advice of a few weeks ago and how we would actually apply it. |
| 08:30:02 | TylerM: | okay, it wasn't perfectly clear to me either. quickbooks ( the non-online version ) has more capabilities to make this easy, so all their FAQs etc wasn't much help for me |
| 08:31:06 | TylerM: | but i think it's basically to make a separate 'account' category to hold lost revenue |
| 08:31:25 | TylerM: | i'll have to recheck the email though |
| 08:31:47 | FrankW: | We can dig into it after the board meeting |
| 08:36:57 | seven: | Hi TylerM |
| 08:37:08 | TylerM: | heh was just going to sms you : ) |
| 08:37:23 | TylerM: | you going to be online in 20 minutes? |
| 08:37:32 | seven: | I am here, yes. |
| 08:37:44 | seven: | But it seems like we have an empty agenda. |
| 08:37:55 | markusN: | yep |
| 08:38:00 | seven: | Hey markusN |
| 08:38:07 | markusN: | hi seven |
| 08:38:32 | markusN: | http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Board_Meeting_2009-04-10 |
| 08:38:33 | sigq: | Title: Board Meeting 2009-04-10 - OSGeo Wiki ( at wiki.osgeo.org ) |
| 08:38:48 | : | * seven wonders whether we need to make a call if there is nothing to discuss. |
| 08:39:26 | : | * FrankW would be pleased to have a board irc session, and only convene a call if we need to formally vote on something. |
| 08:39:33 | markusN: | +1 |
| 08:39:37 | seven: | +1 |
| 08:39:58 | TylerM: | only thing i can think of are items from previous mtg minutes.. but i suspect there is not much on them to report. |
| 08:39:59 | seven: | We should make this the standard way of meeting. |
| 08:40:03 | hobu: | +1 |
| 08:40:18 | hobu: | we need to accept a few projects into incubation, no? |
| 08:40:26 | TylerM: | just means no one can phone in, if away from net |
| 08:40:40 | FrankW: | hobu: I think we are still lacking mentor volunteers, and the incubation committee needs to recommend it to the board. |
| 08:40:43 | TylerM: | at least with skype i'm able to patch in telephones. but either way |
| 08:40:52 | hobu: | FrankW: ah, ok |
| 08:40:56 | FrankW: | TylerM: that is true |
| 08:41:33 | TylerM: | thinking of bob and ari at this moment |
| 08:41:47 | FrankW: | are they on the road - away from net connections? |
| 08:41:48 | TylerM: | but not sure if they'll make it anyway. |
| 08:42:06 | TylerM: | i've phoned bob in before.. not always |
| 08:42:19 | seven: | Regular meetings have until now always been on the phone. We cannot change this without notice. |
| 08:42:29 | TylerM: | jeroen is in skype |
| 08:42:35 | TylerM: | but not in here. |
| 08:42:36 | seven: | But as there is nothing on the agenda it wont make a diff today. |
| 08:42:47 | TylerM: | heh right |
| 08:43:20 | TylerM: | i don't mind skipping the meeting.. i gave my thoughts already : ) |
| 08:43:30 | TylerM: | and have no updates from previous minutes |
| 08:44:06 | TylerM: | haven't heard back from jeroen though.. he is 'away' |
| 08:44:21 | TylerM: | unless he or bob or ari or jo magically appear, I doubt you'll have quorum anyway |
| 08:44:35 | seven: | Slackers... |
| 08:45:07 | seven: | TylerM: Do you know whether ESRI and/or Google are already up for sponsoring FOSS4G. |
| 08:45:17 | seven: | Both confirmed with me that they want to. |
| 08:45:25 | TylerM: | i believe both are |
| 08:45:29 | seven: | Good. |
| 08:47:08 | : | * seven is back in nine minutes. |
| 08:47:08 | TylerM: | esri is committed to sponsor, google only for a booth so far, according to our spreadsheet |
| 08:48:24 | TylerM: | seven: perhaps you could send Cameron a note about your best google contact to follow up with |
| 08:49:45 | FrankW: | I would note that on the foundations list the google open source office people make it clear they are putting radically less money into conferences this year. |
| 08:55:30 | : | * seven is back |
| 08:56:49 | seven: | Board meeting starts. |
| 08:57:14 | seven: | As we have no agenda we decided to just chat a bit here. |
| 08:57:17 | : | * FrankW sounds off. |
| 08:57:26 | seven: | Pipe up if you are here please. |
| 08:57:32 | seven: | Arnulf is here. |
| 08:57:33 | markusN: | ping |
| 08:57:37 | markusN: | Markus is here |
| 08:58:07 | hobu: | here |
| 08:58:29 | seven: | He. |
| 08:58:46 | seven: | Good. Now what. Anybody got anything to talk about? |
| 08:59:25 | seven: | Any news on the sponsorships? |
| 08:59:43 | FrankW: | I have taken on fundraising activities in the last month. |
| 08:59:47 | FrankW: | on -> no |
| 08:59:56 | seven: | Hehe. |
| 09:00:08 | seven: | I have talked to Google and they are not really interested. |
| 09:00:19 | seven: | They already do GSoC |
| 09:00:22 | FrankW: | Is that the open source office, or the geospatial folks? |
| 09:00:25 | seven: | and rather sponsor events. |
| 09:00:40 | seven: | The geospatial folks. |
| 09:00:54 | FrankW: | gotcha |
| 09:01:11 | FrankW: | Does this not leave a 50K hole in our budget? |
| 09:01:16 | seven: | But they would be interested to sponsor specific committees. |
| 09:01:27 | seven: | FrankW. Yes. |
| 09:02:06 | seven: | They would be interested in our Geospatial Committee if there would be more going on. |
| 09:02:15 | FrankW: | geospatial committee? |
| 09:02:17 | FrankW: | What is that? |
| 09:02:25 | markusN: | eh eh |
| 09:02:31 | seven: | They have issues with spatial data licensing, copyright, ownership etc. |
| 09:02:39 | FrankW: | ah, the data committee. |
| 09:02:51 | seven: | Yes. That one. |
| 09:03:08 | seven: | In Germany there is a lot of contact with OSM through FOSSGIS e.V. |
| 09:03:27 | markusN: | Frank, the mission includes "Present and explain licenses for public geodata" - so that's perfect |
| 09:03:29 | seven: | Might be interesting to continue along there. |
| 09:03:46 | markusN: | Likewise in Italy: OSM and GFOSS.it |
| 09:04:04 | FrankW: | and OSM and OSGeo shared booth space at the cartographers conference, right TylerM? |
| 09:04:21 | TylerM: | back |
| 09:04:22 | TylerM: | sry |
| 09:04:37 | TylerM: | frankw yes some osm reps volunteered to help at the booth |
| 09:04:37 | seven: | Interesting effect. Seems like the local chapters are much better in making contact. |
| 09:04:41 | TylerM: | we paid for it all though |
| 09:06:01 | TylerM: | FYI - no other board members in skype at this moment, except jeroen who is still away |
| 09:06:06 | FrankW: | Is there way to initiate activities in the geodata committee that Google would find useful, and be willing to support? |
| 09:06:28 | seven: | Good question. Do you have an answer? |
| 09:06:36 | FrankW: | No, I'm afraid not. |
| 09:07:09 | seven: | I asked Ed Parsons what it would take to get them to sponsor OSGeo. And geospatial data licensing was the first thing that came into his mind. |
| 09:07:42 | FrankW: | Would it be helpful to them if we did more advocacy with governments for geodata to be liberated under clean licenses? |
| 09:07:53 | seven: | Yes. Both. |
| 09:08:16 | markusN: | zool is well informed on that |
| 09:08:29 | FrankW: | That seems like a good alignment of interests between us and them. |
| 09:09:39 | FrankW: | Perhaps we could have someone write up a few case studies of free government geodata activities in different countries as material to encourage other countries to follow suit, and with some lessons learned and best practices? |
| 09:09:59 | FrankW: | ( we were chatting about the Canadian geogratis effot at bit last night at the OSGeo ottawa meeting ) |
| 09:11:43 | seven: | FrankW. Yes. But we know that ( people who write good ) Case Studies are sort of scarce. |
| 09:11:54 | FrankW: | Perhaps something TylerM could take on? |
| 09:12:07 | FrankW: | Possibly in cooperation with Puneet, Jo, etc? |
| 09:12:12 | seven: | Then we need to decide on this and tell him. |
| 09:12:26 | TylerM: | oh don't remind me ; ) |
| 09:12:26 | : | * seven thinks this is a good idea. |
| 09:12:54 | TylerM: | I want to write more for sure |
| 09:12:55 | FrankW: | TylerM: did you ever take a crack at other case studies? Did you decide it isn't your bag? |
| 09:13:03 | seven: | I have contacts to good efforts in Germany and Switzerland. |
| 09:13:16 | FrankW: | This is the sort of thing where if we decide it is strategic it would be good to apply our limited staff resources to. |
| 09:13:23 | seven: | Yes. |
| 09:13:25 | TylerM: | No I didn't, but it's on my list of things to do for sure. I know I can do it, but need a pretty clear head to take it on. |
| 09:13:54 | TylerM: | .. you know, writers and their eccentric ways ;- ) |
| 09:13:58 | FrankW: | lol |
| 09:14:25 | FrankW: | Having bailed twice on writing promised articles for the open source business resource I can't throw any stones. |
| 09:14:32 | TylerM: | i need to take a couple days and only work on it |
| 09:14:53 | seven: | OK. |
| 09:15:27 | seven: | It would finally be something concrete to do that the board has come up with. :- ) |
| 09:15:51 | seven: | We can discuss more on the mailing list. |
| 09:15:52 | TylerM: | heh |
| 09:16:03 | seven: | can -> should |
| 09:16:04 | TylerM: | okay.. |
| 09:16:16 | seven: | What else? |
| 09:16:31 | seven: | I am a bit disappointed that we have so little energy wrt sponsors. |
| 09:16:41 | seven: | Can we do anything about this? |
| 09:16:52 | FrankW: | Was the thinking that good work on open geodata might be enough to bring google on as a $50K sponsor, or only that they would sponsor committee activities at a lower level? |
| 09:17:12 | seven: | I guess both. |
| 09:17:28 | seven: | We need to have a good proposal why they should sponsor us. |
| 09:17:38 | seven: | And we never really got around to anything much. |
| 09:17:50 | FrankW: | I ask, wondering if we need to focus on other possible big fish since we have given ourselves a task to land one 50K sponsor. |
| 09:18:03 | TylerM: | i decided to look at supporting SoC wherever I could.. to help view that as a sponsorship programme |
| 09:18:33 | seven: | Whenever I talk to a potential sponsor it is sort of a pretty blunt thing. Hey, wanna sponsor us? Does not really make that much of an impression. |
| 09:18:41 | FrankW: | I would note that Wolf is doing a fantastic job with SoC. |
| 09:18:51 | seven: | And I am still pretty bad at thinking up something that is really interesting to a sponsor. |
| 09:19:16 | seven: | I had contacts with defense & security. |
| 09:19:43 | seven: | And they are really interested in Geo-FOSS but shy because we are so small. |
| 09:19:44 | TylerM: | if there was a way to provide more obvious 'benefit' for sponsorship levels it might help the sales pitch, though would obviously cost us a bit. |
| 09:20:01 | seven: | What would cost? |
| 09:20:21 | TylerM: | I'm thinking specifically about biting the bullet and trying to coordinate something like discounted booth space or similar for foss4g. |
| 09:20:28 | FrankW: | I'm not personally convinced that overt benefit is the right approach. I think we need to sell folks on the fact that we are supporting an ecosystem from which they derived large benefits. |
| 09:20:35 | TylerM: | obviously means coordinating with foss4g, but it's still our event : ) |
| 09:20:54 | seven: | FarnkW: All true - but they get it anyway. |
| 09:21:23 | TylerM: | yeh true enough.. hmm |
| 09:21:44 | FrankW: | They don't get the benefit if we don't have the funds to make things happen. |
| 09:21:55 | seven: | If you give me a cool sales pitch I will spend time selling it. |
| 09:22:30 | : | * FrankW <- developer. seven <- business guy! |
| 09:22:45 | : | * seven feels insulted. |
| 09:22:56 | FrankW: | Well, not *just* a business guy. |
| 09:23:09 | seven: | Suits. Bah. |
| 09:23:10 | TylerM: | i'm thinking pretty minor.. like booth space or free conference ticket.. real costs are pretty small for us.. but benefit is not only "free" stuff for them, it also makes them come to see more : ) |
| 09:23:15 | FrankW: | My point being, we are in a sad state of affairs if we depend on me to come up with a business case. |
| 09:23:23 | TylerM: | lol |
| 09:23:32 | : | * TylerM doesn't know what /me is : ) |
| 09:23:49 | seven: | Hmmm. |
| 09:23:54 | TylerM: | Jeroen says hi and bye in same breath.. he's off for easter stuff |
| 09:24:12 | TylerM: | oh, seven, I'll wear the suit then ; ) |
| 09:24:16 | FrankW: | I'm not adverse to some tie-ins with FOSS4G - I'm just dubious it will go far to sell sponsorships. |
| 09:24:33 | : | * FrankW needs to find a more positive approach! |
| 09:24:41 | seven: | Yes. |
| 09:24:59 | seven: | The defense guys want certification. |
| 09:25:04 | seven: | for software, |
| 09:25:18 | TylerM: | hmm |
| 09:25:21 | seven: | And the security to know that someone takes on responsiblity. |
| 09:25:25 | FrankW: | Like security level cert? or open source certification? |
| 09:25:53 | FrankW: | Ah, I think I see your point. |
| 09:26:21 | seven: | They have projects going into the billions. |
| 09:26:28 | seven: | It is pure craziness. |
| 09:26:51 | seven: | But they must be able to rely that the software will cont to exist in ten years. |
| 09:27:02 | seven: | Something like that. |
| 09:27:05 | FrankW: | I have this theory that it would be helpful if we had a few initiatives that require funding, but that would only initiate when we get sponsors. For instance, a "software security audit" funded project. |
| 09:27:25 | TylerM: | good idea |
| 09:27:26 | : | * seven does not want to business with defense people for other reasons but there is a lot of money. |
| 09:27:32 | FrankW: | So that sponsors could see their participation resulting in direct activities. |
| 09:27:41 | TylerM: | i could then also see where we tie in with objectives from other orgs that could help support the project. |
| 09:27:49 | TylerM: | ie.. the OSSI, OGC, etc |
| 09:28:07 | wildintellect: | we've been discussing publishers in California - O'reilly, Apress and Springer |
| 09:28:09 | seven: | FrankW: Yo aint that bad as a suit, man. |
| 09:28:43 | TylerM: | hi wildintellect - between a few of us we all have books through them, of course you knew that |
| 09:28:56 | wildintellect: | and here's a brain storm of who are chapter has been looking at http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/California/Budget#Potential_Funding_Sources |
| 09:28:57 | sigq: | Title: California/Budget - OSGeo Wiki ( at wiki.osgeo.org ) |
| 09:29:16 | wildintellect: | TylerM, yes that's why they are on the list, I know of FOSS Gis books from each of those publishers |
| 09:29:36 | seven: | wildintellect: Do you plan on contacting those people? |
| 09:29:43 | wildintellect: | yes |
| 09:29:46 | seven: | Or is that list to be taken up by somebody else. |
| 09:29:48 | TylerM: | ah, as sponsors, i see.. perhaps we could give them a regularl contribution of content, say some case studies or something annually in exchange for sponsorship? |
| 09:29:50 | seven: | AH, OK. |
| 09:29:52 | TylerM: | or is that unreaonsable? |
| 09:29:59 | TylerM: | I know many are used to getting content for free : ) |
| 09:30:15 | wildintellect: | already drafted a letter, but it's for the Ca chapter |
| 09:30:38 | wildintellect: | http://svn.osgeo.org/osgeo/local/California/supportletter.pdf |
| 09:30:49 | TylerM: | for some bcakground for the others here.. I 've been discussing sponsorship ideas with the chapter.. |
| 09:31:06 | TylerM: | one was that they raise funding and it goes into our marketing budget to support events in their area, more or less |
| 09:31:25 | wildintellect: | and clarification on the AAG booth - cloudmade donated a paid employee and swag for 4 days of the booth |
| 09:31:29 | markusN: | wildintellect: if it matters, more FOSSGIS book publishers are listed here: http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Library#GFOSS_Books |
| 09:31:30 | sigq: | Title: Library - OSGeo Wiki ( at wiki.osgeo.org ) |
| 09:31:35 | TylerM: | the idea was to not make us handle "chapter" funds separately |
| 09:32:12 | wildintellect: | well at least in the US where the same tax rules apply |
| 09:32:37 | seven: | wildintellect: Cool, thanks for that work. This is really good. |
| 09:32:58 | TylerM: | One idea I had a while back was to work with some publishers to actually write books ,with profits going to OSGeo.. and with a few from OSGeo helping the whole editing/publishing phase. I know we've got lots of potential writers out there : ) |
| 09:33:08 | TylerM: | but not sure we have enough folks to help on the editing side yet. |
| 09:33:13 | TylerM: | we'll see how journal progresses. |
| 09:33:13 | wildintellect: | seven, the odt and sla files are in the same folder for easy modification |
| 09:34:00 | wildintellect: | TylerM, one key is to get the academics to contribute chapters - they get tenure credit for stuff like that |
| 09:34:33 | seven: | It is a little more complicated in Europe as gov agencies will not readily sponsor a US-based org. It has happened before but is really difficult. |
| 09:34:37 | TylerM: | yeah so there is some incentive.. cool |
| 09:35:03 | TylerM: | seven: and i assume a non profit in Europe couldn't simply funnel funds overseas to a US one? |
| 09:36:19 | seven: | FOSSGIS for example is pretty autarkic. |
| 09:36:25 | seven: | We collect funds and spend them. |
| 09:36:48 | seven: | I have a hard time explaining to them that a share should go to OSGeo. |
| 09:37:33 | seven: | Could OSGeo ensure / take on responsibility for a software project life cycle wise? |
| 09:37:49 | seven: | Usually this can be taken on by a software service provider. |
| 09:37:54 | seven: | But we are all too small. |
| 09:37:57 | seven: | Way too small. |
| 09:38:01 | TylerM: | if coordinated with the PSC we would be ( ? ) |
| 09:38:01 | FrankW: | ! |
| 09:38:13 | FrankW: | How big does an organization need to be? |
| 09:38:15 | TylerM: | if it was entirely unrealistic, then PSC wouldn't want it : ) |
| 09:38:20 | seven: | 5000+ |
| 09:38:29 | wildintellect: | What kind of responsibility? |
| 09:38:40 | seven: | Good question. |
| 09:38:59 | FrankW: | I would not like to see ourselves in a position of running a commercial project with strict deliverables. |
| 09:39:09 | seven: | What happens if Homeland Defense uses Open Source software and the project dies. Something like that. |
| 09:39:24 | FrankW: | But I can imagine us using funding to provide some particular guarantees with regard to a project. |
| 09:39:28 | wildintellect: | making sure svn, mailing and wiki is up in perpetuity seems easy enough |
| 09:40:08 | FrankW: | I would add that open source projects don't die, they just slow down. |
| 09:40:10 | seven: | Believe me, this is a different world altogether. I am just starting to understand it. |
| 09:40:42 | seven: | Can you imagine a software project running along billions? |
| 09:40:44 | wildintellect: | if Defense really uses a project they theoretically have contributors in house too |
| 09:40:50 | FrankW: | I do think we need to market outselves as sustaining projects for the long term so organizations can depend on them. |
| 09:40:58 | TylerM: | seven: an out-sourced project? |
| 09:41:15 | : | * FrankW cannot imagine a project involving billions of dollars that does not collapse under it's own weight and complexity. |
| 09:41:20 | seven: | FrankW: This is basically it. |
| 09:41:30 | seven: | Yes. |
| 09:41:42 | wildintellect: | FrankW, windows... |
| 09:41:43 | seven: | Its a laugh. But there are loads of money. |
| 09:41:43 | FrankW: | For large defence contracts, it seems likely they will still be lead by the big contracting organizations. |
| 09:41:46 | TylerM: | after a few failure iterations, they tend to then look outside and grab foss, and then modify it behind closed doors |
| 09:41:49 | TylerM: | is my take anyway |
| 09:42:14 | seven: | No, they do not do much themselves. This is the crazy thing. |
| 09:42:18 | TylerM: | mark lucas can tell more stories like this and give you more insight too if you need it seven |
| 09:42:25 | FrankW: | I'd like to more of us to be able to move in the circles that Mark Lucas moves in. |
| 09:42:33 | seven: | They want others to do the basic software stuff and only customize it. |
| 09:42:36 | TylerM: | Or find ways to engage with him |
| 09:42:43 | wildintellect: | right, I filled out that survey about FOSS in Gov, having gov contribute is a key thing that is missing in a lot of cases |
| 09:43:05 | wildintellect: | Although I here the CIA does contribute back to Plone |
| 09:43:11 | : | * seven does not really want to make business in that arena. But it may be relevant to OSGeo funding. |
| 09:44:16 | TylerM: | hopefully there are synergies : ) where they use FOSS, so hopefully no conflict there since we all will benefit |
| 09:44:54 | FrankW: | Have any of us attended the geoint conference? ( US military/intel geospatial conf ) |
| 09:45:00 | TylerM: | seven: I think the background behind OpenSSL ( I think ) is a good case story, in case you haven't heard about it |
| 09:45:11 | TylerM: | FrankW: not me |
| 09:45:28 | TylerM: | but Mark brought it up a few times, but didn't fit with my timing or ability at the moment |
| 09:45:39 | seven: | Who else? Who might be interested in sponsoring OSGeo. Or - the other way round - what can OSGeo "sell" people that does not conflict with our member's businesses. |
| 09:46:02 | TylerM: | provide forums for bringing people together |
| 09:46:11 | TylerM: | companies in need .. meet.. companies that provide? |
| 09:46:15 | seven: | Or do we have to work the other way round and browse through business directories and ask all of them? |
| 09:46:15 | FrankW: | seven: are you thinking big fish or small fish sponsorships? |
| 09:46:17 | TylerM: | kind of like foss4g does already |
| 09:46:17 | wildintellect: | had I known I would have talked with NGA more, at the booth next to ours at the AAG |
| 09:46:33 | TylerM: | wildintellect: I'm sure they were listening anway ; ) |
| 09:46:42 | seven: | Both. If we do not get big fish then we need to get more small. |
| 09:46:47 | wildintellect: | USGS did take materials from us |
| 09:47:00 | FrankW: | I think there are lots of user organizations deriving a substantial benefit from osgeo software and that we need to give all of them a thoughtful opporutnity to become modest level sponsors. |
| 09:47:07 | seven: | Big fish seem to be fearing for their money right now. Not a good bait. |
| 09:47:14 | wildintellect: | ajturner, seemed to think he had a list of FOSS business users in DC to ask |
| 09:47:15 | TylerM: | re: "forum" .. could we organise some serious sort of roundtable event? |
| 09:47:39 | TylerM: | i haven't been at a successful one, that i can remember anyway |
| 09:47:46 | FrankW: | :- ) |
| 09:48:29 | TylerM: | but seems like there are these sorts of SDI events.. and various OGC sorts of meetings.. but we could provide a different venue where, for example, PSC's have a presence.. |
| 09:48:50 | TylerM: | so you get the foss devs represented in helping set/support direction based on brainstorming. hmm.. anyway.. muddy water : ) |
| 09:48:58 | TylerM: | instead of what currently seems to happen... |
| 09:49:07 | TylerM: | suits meet, talk and then go hoome : ) |
| 09:49:14 | seven: | The OGC TC meeting went really from an OSGeo perspective. |
| 09:49:21 | FrankW: | It seems like FOSS4G would be the best place to make forums like that happen. |
| 09:49:33 | seven: | There was an intro by Dimitri Kotzinos ( chair of the Greek chapter ) |
| 09:49:45 | TylerM: | frankw: I agree.. just means more of a focus |
| 09:49:51 | seven: | and then a dozen presentations of which half were fully FOSS based. |
| 09:49:57 | TylerM: | seven: oh good.. I was talking with him lots about it |
| 09:49:59 | seven: | This is really cool. |
| 09:50:04 | TylerM: | right on! |
| 09:50:07 | FrankW: | I'm just not sure how much demand there is for the sort of forum you describe. |
| 09:50:14 | seven: | But this was the first contact for most of the people. |
| 09:50:31 | seven: | Now they need time to digest all that. |
| 09:50:33 | TylerM: | I think that there are gov't and other orgs who have $$ to get them to these sorts of forums.. but not just generally to go to a conference. |
| 09:50:53 | seven: | Then they need a year until they dare use it. And then another until they think about sponsoring. |
| 09:51:20 | seven: | And I think we are doing a good job. In the long run it will show. |
| 09:51:32 | seven: | But right now we are just a bit short of funding. |
| 09:51:39 | TylerM: | From a foss4g event perspective, if we had, for example, a gov't building SDI "day".. where various reps from around the world provided their papers, and there was some sort of discussion, it would be encoruaging for them |
| 09:52:00 | seven: | Therefore one big fish would be just perfect right now... |
| 09:52:18 | : | * FrankW contemplates big fish possibilities. |
| 09:52:58 | FrankW: | If it didn't task so much like eating my own liver, we could pursue microsoft as a big sponsor and try to tie it in with improved support for SQLServer spatial data types in several projects. |
| 09:52:58 | seven: | Send me a list of people and what to offer them and I'll talk them into it. |
| 09:53:01 | TylerM: | similar to google is nokia/navtek |
| 09:53:10 | FrankW: | task->taste |
| 09:53:14 | TylerM: | they have data.. and some apps |
| 09:53:25 | seven: | Hehe, I will meet Steve Ballmer on the 23rd. |
| 09:53:31 | seven: | He is in Cologne... |
| 09:53:48 | TylerM: | :o |
| 09:53:48 | FrankW: | Or perhaps we could tie it to some sort of silverlight support... |
| 09:53:57 | : | * TylerM felt that coming ;- ) |
| 09:54:07 | FrankW: | SQLServer spatial is something I could help make happen -- silverlight - not so much. |
| 09:54:11 | TylerM: | i'm pretty ignorant of silverlight |
| 09:54:18 | FrankW: | I was impressed by the interest in silverlight at the esri dev summit. |
| 09:54:31 | FrankW: | even if it smells like coolaid to me. |
| 09:54:36 | TylerM: | I still haven't approved to install it on my windows vm : ) hehe |
| 09:54:40 | FrankW: | koolaid? |
| 09:54:49 | TylerM: | very kool |
| 09:55:14 | FrankW: | I do think we may need some degree of quid-pro-quo to land a big sponsor. |
| 09:55:22 | TylerM: | HAve any of you looked at Nokia's online map app? |
| 09:55:40 | : | * FrankW believes online mapping is a fad that will pass... |
| 09:56:03 | seven: | FrankW was never wrong - before |
| 09:56:20 | TylerM: | they have it on their phones and it's really nice.. but in all they seem to be two or three different apps.. different on each platform ( desktop, phone, and in other social apps ).. |
| 09:56:26 | TylerM: | they could really use our help : ) |
| 09:56:37 | TylerM: | getting data between their apps better.. anyway. |
| 09:56:42 | : | * FrankW believes that one day we will all have an OSM database of the entire early loaded into a postgis instance inside our skulls, and we won't need online maps anymore. |
| 09:56:52 | FrankW: | entire *earth* |
| 09:57:23 | TylerM: | place head in SASE.. wait a few days |
| 09:58:06 | FrankW: | We have been going for an hour, do we have any particular topic we want to focus on? |
| 09:58:12 | seven: | FrankW: This is exactly what I am seeking for. What equivalent, reward, return service, trade-off can OSGeo offer sponsors. |
| 09:58:20 | seven: | No, lets finish. I am hungry. |
| 09:58:33 | TylerM: | okay, me too actually : ) |
| 09:58:37 | FrankW: | I will take an action item to write up some notes on my "pending fundable initiatives" idea that sponsors could kick off by signing up. |
| 09:58:38 | : | * seven can smell the barbecue through the window... |
| 09:58:48 | seven: | Cool. |
| 09:59:07 | seven: | Thanks for attending. I will propose a meeting early May via the list. |
| 09:59:13 | TylerM: | thanks too.. |
| 09:59:19 | TylerM: | hi to your friends over there seven |
| 09:59:21 | FrankW: | I *promise* I will have financials for that meeting! |
| 09:59:25 | TylerM: | hehe |
| 09:59:34 | seven: | FrankW: You will never learn it... |
| 09:59:49 | TylerM: | FrankW: did you make any syrup this year? |
| 10:00:03 | seven: | Have a nice weekend. |
| 10:00:08 | TylerM: | just getting ready to plant some seeds soon. |
| 10:00:09 | TylerM: | ciao seven |
| 10:00:09 | FrankW: | TylerM: nope, I'm feeling too much time pressure and my syrup making operation is very labour intensive. |
| 10:00:20 | TylerM: | ah.. so no side business yet? ; ) |
| 10:00:32 | FrankW: | not syrup at least, maybe firewood! |
| 10:01:03 | TylerM: | heh oh good.. got the kids splitting it for campgrounds at $5/bag? |
| 10:01:04 | TylerM: | hehe |
| 10:01:30 | FrankW: | TylerM: if you would like to eat, perhaps we could reconvene here in an hour or so for financial stuff? |
| 10:01:39 | TylerM: | yes please |
| 10:01:48 | FrankW: | sounds good ... |
| 10:01:57 | TylerM: | okay th |
| 10:01:58 | TylerM: | thx |
| 10:04:36 | ajturner: | saw my name |
| 10:04:42 | ajturner: | looking for donations in DC? |
| 10:05:08 | wildintellect: | we were talking about finding OSGeo sponsors in general |
| 10:05:16 | wildintellect: | so I mentioned it |
| 10:06:14 | ajturner: | well, this goes back to the very passionate discussion at FOSS4G |
| 10:06:22 | ajturner: | we need marketing materials |
| 10:06:32 | ajturner: | there was a simple brochure at AAG |
| 10:06:51 | wildintellect: | the project pages are a little outdated but do exist |
| 10:07:01 | wildintellect: | and I'm planning to print a copy of the journal for the next booth |
| 10:08:11 | wildintellect: | + I still have an idea in the back of my head to make a booklet with 1/2 page of each project and some case studies |
| 10:08:32 | seven: | ajturner: The discussion was not passionate. It was useless in that it did not render any results. |
| 10:08:55 | ajturner: | we need a folder to give to big potential donors |
| 10:09:06 | ajturner: | here's what you get with various levels of sponsor |
| 10:09:18 | ajturner: | here's where OSGeo has a booth - here's where projects have made a difference |
| 10:09:20 | seven: | +1 |
| 10:09:21 | ajturner: | here are other sponsors |
| 10:10:01 | : | * wildintellect wildintellect takes down notes |
| 10:11:41 | wildintellect: | in fact there's a spot on the wiki just waiting http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Foundation_Sponsorship#How_To_Sell_Sponsorship.3F |
| 10:11:42 | sigq: | Title: Foundation Sponsorship - OSGeo Wiki ( at wiki.osgeo.org ) |
| 10:15:15 | wildintellect: | hmm how do I link to http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Category:Events |
| 10:15:16 | sigq: | Title: Category:Events - OSGeo Wiki ( at wiki.osgeo.org ) |
| 10:19:57 | wildintellect: | ajturner, thanks for seeding the ideas, http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Foundation_Sponsorship#How_To_Sell_Sponsorship.3F |
| 10:19:58 | sigq: | Title: Foundation Sponsorship - OSGeo Wiki ( at wiki.osgeo.org ) |
| 10:20:19 | darkblue_B: | hey all - not in the mtg, but I am lookng at some US Dept of Energy grant RFP.. there may be some spatial components here |
| 10:20:51 | darkblue_B: | even one thimble full of on of these awards would be a substantial boost to OSGeo et al |
| 10:22:34 | wildintellect: | darkblue_B, I think we'd have to setup a plan if we want to do grants - considering the # of employees on staff - I've been contemplating the same idea though |
| 10:22:55 | darkblue_B: | yes, need some tactical thinking |
| 10:23:27 | wildintellect: | and not step on the toes of labs that do FOSS work too |
| 10:23:48 | darkblue_B: | expediency, team work, of course |
| 10:23:58 | darkblue_B: | FOSS has a lot ot offer in this environment |
| 10:24:14 | darkblue_B: | nimble not the least of it |
| 10:27:32 | wildintellect: | can you link the RFP page |
| 10:27:51 | wildintellect: | better yet stick on the wiki |
| 10:28:22 | darkblue_B: | I want to think this through |
| 10:29:02 | darkblue_B: | out the door right now.. |
| 10:29:48 | darkblue_B: | there is some competitiveness about this, naturally, but thats ok |
| 10:29:57 | darkblue_B: | so picking teams is part of the process |
| 10:30:11 | darkblue_B: | not something I have a whole lot of interest in |
| 10:30:12 | ajturner: | yeah, the Sponsorship is coming along - but needs to be glossy in the end |
| 10:30:21 | ajturner: | companies aren't going to sign $50k on a wiki |
| 10:30:32 | darkblue_B: | agreed |
| 10:31:00 | darkblue_B: | OSGeo has a meta position to play |
| 10:31:24 | wildintellect: | I think that brochure we had at the AAG was step 1 of materials from the pro marketing shop |
| 10:31:32 | ajturner: | yes |
| 10:31:37 | ajturner: | it was a good first step |
| 10:34:17 | wildintellect: | thanks for the input, see you later |
| 10:41:27 | hobu: | FrankW: I can't say I much like your proposal to the board list. Some problems I have with it: Does OSGeo propose to compete with independents hoping to do those kinds of things? It puts people in the mindset of "we'll pay OSGeo and they'll do it for cheap". Our financial reality is we'll soon have no coordinating ED at our current fundraising pace. |
| 10:42:03 | hobu: | but just throwing darts doesn't solve the problem either |
| 10:42:16 | FrankW: | Re: Does OSGeo propose to compete with independents hoping to do those kinds of things? |
| 10:42:33 | FrankW: | I'd be pleased to have independents scare up funding to do these tasks, and go ahead and do them. |
| 10:42:40 | FrankW: | Re: It puts people in the mindset of "we'll pay OSGeo and they'll do it for cheap". |
| 10:42:59 | FrankW: | I don't think we should aim to do stuff too cheap, and we should mostly try and ensure it is in line with our goals. |
| 10:43:15 | hobu: | yes, but is our mission *do stuff*? |
| 10:43:21 | FrankW: | Re: financial reality |
| 10:44:01 | FrankW: | This is partly an attempt to generate new funding to support the ED and other efforts, and there is definately some risk with regard to our capacity to manage such efforts. |
| 10:44:05 | TylerM: | wildintellect / ajturner - the production of higher quality marketing material is on my plate as we speak |
| 10:44:28 | TylerM: | the brochure was the first product from this effort. More to come. I've need the "folder of stufF" for sponsors more than anyone ; ) |
| 10:44:38 | ajturner: | great TylerM - I would love to take this to our board |
| 10:44:56 | FrankW: | I think it would be good for OSGeo to do stuff, though it must be understand that we can't do all that much and that we must not suck the oxygen out of the normal mechanisms by which things get done ( volunteers, contractors, etc ) |
| 10:45:37 | TylerM: | ajturner: okay, great.. we've focused on supporting "events" in that there are immediate needs and opportunities.. but the bigger picture of promotion material is definitely on the radar. |
| 10:45:44 | FrankW: | I'm mostly trying to help sponsors see themselves as having a direct effect ... making something specific happen. |
| 10:46:12 | hobu: | yes, understood. My counter is why pay for the overhead of OSGeo to do such things when I could pay an independent. |
| 10:46:26 | ajturner: | FrankW: is there a clear message/way for sponsors to say "I need X added to Y, who can I throw money at to make that happen?" |
| 10:46:32 | hobu: | ( who in fact it might be the same person in both scenarios doing the work ) |
| 10:46:40 | ajturner: | actually "Who can I sign a contract with... and what does that contract look like?" |
| 10:46:50 | FrankW: | ajturner: I think that scenario is the kind of thing that should continue to be done by commercial contracting. |
| 10:47:20 | FrankW: | I don't think it is a good idea for OSGeo to take on commercial style contract delivery. |
| 10:47:28 | ajturner: | I thought you were promoting such a concept? I was saying a type of registration of contracting companies for products would be good |
| 10:47:45 | FrankW: | We do have such a registry - the service provider directory. |
| 10:47:51 | ajturner: | no, it's not delivering the contract, it's providing information on Who and How - but then negotiations happen directly b/w them |
| 10:48:01 | FrankW: | gotcha - I misunderstood at first. |
| 10:48:34 | FrankW: | hobu: is responding to a proposal of mine that *does* involve OSGeo actively managing funded initiatives with reasonably concrete deliberables. |
| 10:48:54 | FrankW: | But I like to think of them as "strategic efforts" rather than one-user-oriented commercial developments. |
| 10:55:01 | TylerM: | i do think that some funding providers would rather work with osgeo to get something 'done' than try to hunt up someone or some other less known org. to deal with it. so generally speaking, I can see the benefit and potential there frank. |
| 10:55:49 | CIA-12: | osgeo: yjacolin * r1476 /journal/volume_5/en-us/annual_report/ ( 19 files ): latex typo |
| 10:57:44 | sigq: | osgeofeed: Changeset [1476]: latex typo <http://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/changeset/1476> |
| 11:04:49 | CIA-12: | osgeo: yjacolin * r1477 /journal/volume_5/en-us/annual_report/ ( 88 files in 5 dirs ): move tex files into directory |
| 11:04:49 | sigq: | osgeofeed: Changeset [1477]: move tex files into directory <http://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/changeset/1477> |
| 11:47:44 | CIA-12: | osgeo: yjacolin * r1478 /journal/volume_5/en-us/ ( 27 files in 5 dirs ): latex typo and adding cover file ( pdf + odg ) |
| 11:47:44 | sigq: | osgeofeed: Changeset [1478]: latex typo and adding cover file ( pdf + odg ) <http://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/changeset/1478> |
| 11:53:56 | CIA-12: | osgeo: yjacolin * r1479 /journal/volume_5/en-us/ ( 7 files in 5 dirs ): latex typo and adding some file ( autodesk section and editorial fake file ) |
| 11:53:56 | sigq: | osgeofeed: Changeset [1479]: latex typo and adding some file ( autodesk section and editorial fake file ) <http://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/changeset/1479> |
| 12:05:26 | CIA-12: | osgeo: yjacolin * r1480 /journal/volume_5/en-us/ ( 4 files in 3 dirs ): FOSS4G2009 banner, and updating cover |
| 12:05:26 | sigq: | osgeofeed: Changeset [1480]: FOSS4G2009 banner, and updating cover <http://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/changeset/1480> |
| 12:18:48 | sigq: | osgeofeed: Changeset [1481]: typo fixed <http://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/changeset/1481> |
| 12:19:22 | CIA-12: | osgeo: neteler * r1481 /marketing/flyer/osgeo/de/OSGeo_allg_DE_A4.odp: typo fixed |
| 12:24:10 | sigq: | osgeofeed: Changeset [1482]: add grass section + correction for india LC file <http://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/changeset/1482> |
| 12:24:27 | CIA-12: | osgeo: yjacolin * r1482 /journal/volume_5/en-us/ ( 5 files in 3 dirs ): add grass section + correction for india LC file |
| 12:27:44 | CIA-12: | osgeo: yjacolin * r1483 /journal/volume_5/en-us/annual_report/executive/foss4G2009_1.jpg: missing file |
| 12:27:44 | sigq: | osgeofeed: Changeset [1483]: missing file <http://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/changeset/1483> |
| 13:14:26 | wildint: | TylerM, can we put a button on the Mailing list page that says [Click here to see other OSGeo Mailing Lists] |
| 13:16:17 | TylerM: | wildint: not sure which pages you mean |
| 13:16:40 | wildint: | http://www.osgeo.org/content/faq/mailing_lists.html |
| 13:16:42 | sigq: | Title: OSGeo Mailing Lists | OSGeo.org ( at www.osgeo.org ) |
| 13:16:54 | wildint: | the link at the bottom just doesn't stand out enough |
| 13:17:21 | TylerM: | ah good point |
| 13:17:28 | TylerM: | biab |