| 01:09:07 | milovanderlinden: | Hi here, we are getting more and more questions about "upgrading" the ogr dgn driver to support newer versions of dgn. If we would be able to raise funds for that driver, would a body within osgeo be able to turn it into a development project and fullfill? |
| 01:27:48 | gerse: | #mapguide |
| 01:33:16 | gerse: | hallo? |
| 01:37:13 | gerse: | hello? |
| 02:07:23 | milovanderlinden: | hi there |
| 02:09:22 | steko: | hi milovanderlinden |
| 02:43:15 | crschmidt: | milovanderlinden: You should probably ask that to the GDAL/OGR project directly. |
| 02:43:33 | milovanderlinden: | ok. I wll post to the mailing list |
| 02:43:53 | crschmidt: | An email to the mailing list giving a deeper outline of what 'upgrading" might mean would probably be useful ( what versions need supporting, read/write or just read, etc. ) |
| 02:44:08 | crschmidt: | Oh |
| 02:44:12 | crschmidt: | DGN is cad |
| 02:44:39 | crschmidt: | I'm assuming you're talking about the 'v8 dgn' format? |
| 02:45:25 | crschmidt: | I've seen a number of emails about improving various cad read support stuff |
| 02:45:35 | crschmidt: | Generally, the answer is "You'd need more money than you've got." |
| 02:47:19 | milovanderlinden: | Define more money? 1k, 2k, 20k, 200k? |
| 02:48:02 | crschmidt: | I really can't comment effectively. In the past, read/write support for some AutoDesk CAD format was mentioned, and the number that sticks in my mind is the mid-5-figures, nearer to 50k than anything else. |
| 02:48:11 | crschmidt: | But I don't know if that has any relevance to your current question. |
| 02:48:23 | crschmidt: | Because the formats may be totally different -- I pay no attention to CAD : ) |
| 02:54:51 | : | * milovanderlinden thinks crschmidt is in a luxurious position if he can ignore CAD ;- ) |
| 02:55:00 | crschmidt: | Well, I don't make maps |
| 02:55:07 | crschmidt: | Or use any OSGeo software |
| 02:55:17 | crschmidt: | on a regular basis |
| 02:55:57 | crschmidt: | even with OpenLayers, I've only used it to create something about 4 times -- Rectifier, an internal MC app, a significant extension to the OSM websit,e and recovery-map.org |
| 03:06:41 | milovanderlinden: | lucky man! :D |
| 03:07:43 | milovanderlinden: | I could write articles about CAD-hell, open dng not being open and DWG's pitt of mystery.. |
| 03:08:04 | : | * milovanderlinden shakes hands with ticheler |
| 03:30:45 | : | * ticheler shakes hands back with milovanderlinden :- ) |
| 05:25:27 | zool: | hello peoples |
| 05:27:10 | zool: | wondering if there was any pre-board-meeting discussion to be had on irc |
| 05:32:33 | : | * zool browses teh logs, not much to see there |
| 06:20:15 | TylerM: | Agenda: http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Board_Meeting_2009-05-29#Agenda |
| 06:20:17 | sigq: | Title: Board Meeting 2009-05-29 - OSGeo Wiki ( at wiki.osgeo.org ) |
| 06:23:36 | sigq: | osgeofeed: Changeset [1620]: add image to education report <http://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/changeset/1620> |
| 06:24:03 | CIA-43: | osgeo: tmitchell * r1619 /journal/volume_5/en-us/OSGeoJournal_vol5.tex: main doc reorg articles |
| 06:24:03 | CIA-43: | osgeo: tmitchell * r1620 /journal/volume_5/en-us/annual_report/committees/education_inventory.png: add image to education report |
| 06:26:12 | CIA-43: | osgeo: tmitchell * r1621 /journal/volume_5/en-us/annual_report/executive/finance.pdf: extract of financial report page |
| 06:26:24 | sigq: | osgeofeed: Changeset [1621]: extract of financial report page <http://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/changeset/1621> |
| 06:28:06 | sigq: | osgeofeed: Changeset [1622]: extract of financial report page <http://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/changeset/1622> |
| 06:28:33 | CIA-43: | osgeo: tmitchell * r1622 /journal/volume_5/en-us/annual_report/executive/finance.pdf: extract of financial report page |
| 06:29:02 | : | * FrankW adds agenda item for the board meeting to approve the 03-13 minutes which appear to have been missed last meeting. |
| 06:29:13 | FrankW: | Do we have thoughts on who will act as CRO this year? |
| 06:29:25 | FrankW: | For the charter member and board elections that is. |
| 06:30:05 | ajolma: | eh, what's CRO? |
| 06:30:14 | TylerM: | hi guys |
| 06:30:18 | FrankW: | chief returning officer |
| 06:30:20 | TylerM: | I think we should just call it the Elections Officer : ) |
| 06:30:23 | FrankW: | Someone to run the election. |
| 06:30:35 | FrankW: | I am fine with calling them the Elections Officer. |
| 06:30:53 | TylerM: | I haven't seen any discussion on it to date except for this. |
| 06:31:15 | : | * FrankW is connected via dialup today and won't be able to make it into skype. |
| 06:31:25 | FrankW: | It seems the poor weather has my satellite link down. |
| 06:31:50 | : | * ajolma enjoys perfect weather : ) |
| 06:33:06 | FrankW: | I open to questions about the financial reports in advance of the meeting. |
| 06:33:24 | FrankW: | But I don't have access to quickbooksonline today, so drill down questions will need to be answered by Tyler. |
| 06:33:42 | TylerM: | ugh, sounds tough FrankW |
| 06:34:01 | TylerM: | okay, no problem |
| 06:34:21 | TylerM: | They support Safari on Mac now for quickbooks online, makes things a lot easier now : ) |
| 06:34:39 | TylerM: | I think it's going to be perfect weather here too |
| 06:35:20 | TylerM: | zool: ping, just a reminder to join skype at some point in next 20 mins |
| 06:35:25 | FrankW: | I'm still running on a very old, un-updated mac. I don't think I'll try it. |
| 06:37:12 | crschmidt: | yeah, you're still on Safari 1.3 |
| 06:38:35 | TylerM: | FrankW: let me know if you would you like me to phone you into Skype? |
| 06:38:53 | FrankW: | Yes, if you have skypeout available, you will need to do it for me. |
| 06:39:14 | FrankW: | I will need to drop off dialup though. |
| 06:39:22 | FrankW: | So we can pursue it when we are done the irc portion of the meeting. |
| 06:41:28 | TylerM: | I'm not sure how many others will be able to join IRC - at this point Bob and Markus are only on Skype. |
| 06:43:31 | seven: | And Arnulf |
| 06:43:34 | TylerM: | FrankW: 2041 number? |
| 06:43:47 | TylerM: | seven: sorry, I meant they are not in IRC : ) |
| 06:44:09 | TylerM: | I see 5 of 9 in Skype, plus I'll dial in Frank |
| 06:44:30 | FrankW: | TylerM: yes |
| 06:46:43 | zool: | re all |
| 06:47:34 | : | * seven has updated her netbook to Ubuntu 9.04 and everything is sluggish and slow. :-( |
| 06:47:56 | TylerM: | so we'll talk slower for you? ; ) |
| 06:48:01 | TylerM: | hi zool - around for the meeting? |
| 06:48:09 | zool: | yesyes |
| 06:48:21 | TylerM: | great, i see you in skype now |
| 06:48:54 | zool: | sorry for dropping in the election item at last minute, more to flag it up to board than meaning to invoke long discussion of it |
| 06:49:13 | seven: | zool: +1 Good to bring it up, thanks. |
| 06:52:24 | seven: | Shall we discuss agenda here and only phone later? |
| 06:53:01 | zool: | sure, if it's legal : ) istr bob had another commitment anyway |
| 06:53:06 | seven: | Maybe we need to reorganize so that we can have the votes before Markus and Ari have to leave. |
| 06:53:58 | TylerM: | zool: thanks for the reminder re: Bob |
| 06:54:03 | TylerM: | markus is the only one that's not in IRC |
| 06:54:15 | TylerM: | and pramsey |
| 06:54:30 | TylerM: | and paul and frank are the only ones not in skype .. lol |
| 06:54:44 | zool: | happy to vote on the formal points first then discuss afterwards |
| 06:54:46 | TylerM: | though howard and ticheler are both sleeping in skype.. |
| 06:55:49 | seven: | Hi markusN |
| 06:56:00 | zool: | the main issue that may drag the call out is accounts approval - are there queries? |
| 06:56:07 | zool: | hey markusN |
| 06:56:14 | TylerM: | thanks for moving over markusN |
| 06:56:16 | seven: | We start discussion here. |
| 06:56:39 | markusN: | sure, hi all |
| 06:56:43 | seven: | Who is here ( for the protocol ) |
| 06:56:45 | seven: | Arnulf |
| 06:56:48 | zool: | Jo |
| 06:56:49 | : | * FrankW sounds off |
| 06:56:52 | TylerM: | Tyler |
| 06:56:52 | markusN: | Markus |
| 06:56:53 | ajolma: | Ari |
| 06:57:05 | TylerM: | Meeting started ============= |
| 06:57:19 | TylerM: | * Tyler volunteers to take minutes |
| 06:57:27 | seven: | Thank you. |
| 06:57:39 | seven: | # Review and approve Board Meeting 2009-03-13 minutes. |
| 06:57:49 | seven: | http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Board_Meeting_2009-03-13 |
| 06:57:50 | sigq: | Title: Board Meeting 2009-03-13 - OSGeo Wiki ( at wiki.osgeo.org ) |
| 06:57:57 | seven: | # Review and approve Board Meeting 2009-04-24 minutes. |
| 06:58:09 | seven: | http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Board_Meeting_2009-04-24 |
| 06:58:10 | sigq: | Title: Board Meeting 2009-04-24 - OSGeo Wiki ( at wiki.osgeo.org ) |
| 06:58:22 | FrankW: | note that this is only an unofficial premeeting ... |
| 06:58:57 | markusN: | re the first minutes: was there any follow-up concerning "Ask Marketing Committee to discuss how to spread the OSGeo PayPal donation option more, track donors, etc. "? |
| 06:59:05 | seven: | We will have the official vote once we are on the call. |
| 06:59:17 | seven: | But if there are issues we can discuss them here beforehand. |
| 06:59:26 | TylerM: | markusN: no, I didn't make any follow up on it via marketing committee |
| 06:59:26 | seven: | Only the vote itself needs to be in voice. |
| 07:00:09 | TylerM: | Similar question re: the 15k up front funding for foss4g2010 - did conference committee get anything back? |
| 07:00:20 | seven: | We are not using Tickets in Marketing yet. Maybe we should start to do that. |
| 07:00:26 | zool: | seven++ |
| 07:00:33 | markusN: | ( GRASS has its own Paypal button now: http://grass.osgeo.org/donation.php ) |
| 07:00:34 | sigq: | Title: GRASS GIS Donation page ( at grass.osgeo.org ) |
| 07:00:46 | markusN: | via gfoss.it |
| 07:00:47 | FrankW: | With regard to 15k upfront, I floated a proposal. |
| 07:00:56 | FrankW: | but there was no followup on the list from me or anyone else. |
| 07:01:20 | TylerM: | yeah - i'll add a ticket for marketing |
| 07:01:39 | zool: | as the barcelona organisers are the ones it will most impact i would expect to see input form them e.g. lorenzo - a draft budget for where that will be laid out |
| 07:01:50 | seven: | And ideally add an agent to post new tickets to the list. |
| 07:02:17 | FrankW: | zool: agreed. I'm assuming it is not a pressing issue for them given their lack of input. |
| 07:03:10 | zool: | nod, it will be next year's ec-gis type workshops that they will want promotional attendance at, i guess |
| 07:03:19 | seven: | Anything else on the minutes item? |
| 07:03:30 | seven: | If not I'd like to go to the next point. |
| 07:03:32 | seven: | # Approve OSSIM for graduation from incubation with Mark Lucas as VP, OSSIM as recommended by the incubation committee. |
| 07:03:40 | seven: | Just the disuccsion here. |
| 07:03:43 | seven: | Vorint is late.r |
| 07:03:49 | seven: | Voting... |
| 07:04:24 | seven: | If you have followed Incubation you will know the status. |
| 07:04:31 | TylerM: | I'll be glad to see OSSIM graduate. |
| 07:04:37 | zool: | i am glad to hear inccom is happy given the code management / governance issues ossim had in the past - very glad! |
| 07:05:10 | seven: | Yes. Any queries or issues on this? |
| 07:05:23 | FrankW: | OSSIM has a somewhat unconventional approach, but they do buy into our requirement for openness, and traceability. |
| 07:05:38 | zool: | i trust inccoms collective judgement |
| 07:06:42 | sigq: | osgeofeed: Ticket #377 ( task created ): Review PayPal options for all projects and tracking donors <http://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/ticket/377> |
| 07:07:01 | seven: | Good. |
| 07:07:08 | seven: | Review and approve the 2008 annual financial report recommended by the Finance committee |
| 07:07:11 | markusN: | thanks TylerM |
| 07:07:25 | seven: | I have followed the mails so nothing new to me. |
| 07:07:32 | seven: | Any questions? |
| 07:07:44 | zool: | ditto |
| 07:08:11 | TylerM: | it's clear to me |
| 07:08:40 | seven: | Are we All ready to vote on it? |
| 07:08:49 | : | * zool nods |
| 07:08:58 | : | * ajolma nods |
| 07:09:13 | seven: | Good. |
| 07:09:15 | TylerM: | seven: want me to dial up then? |
| 07:09:20 | seven: | # Elections for Charter Members and to Board in 2009 - find a CRO, draft a timetable. |
| 07:09:27 | seven: | Maybe this one, just short. |
| 07:09:40 | seven: | Maybe there is someone standing up right now who wants to do this. |
| 07:09:48 | seven: | Then we could vote on that motion to. |
| 07:09:51 | seven: | too. |
| 07:10:04 | seven: | We need an Election Officer, volunteers. |
| 07:10:14 | TylerM: | CRO = elections officer.. collecting nominations, collating votes |
| 07:10:19 | zool: | hehe, in theory i would like to do it this year but i will be too busy for the next couple of months |
| 07:10:25 | seven: | I believe anybody could volunteer, or does it have to be an OSGeo official |
| 07:10:26 | TylerM: | making announcements, etc. too |
| 07:10:27 | seven: | ? |
| 07:10:45 | TylerM: | hmm |
| 07:10:49 | FrankW: | It should be someone who does not intend to run for the board. |
| 07:10:56 | FrankW: | I'm not aware of any other restrictions. |
| 07:10:56 | seven: | Obviously... |
| 07:11:25 | seven: | OK, lets not wait for it to happen. |
| 07:11:32 | seven: | Shall we start the phone call? |
| 07:11:38 | zool: | mind that this includes the charter member expansion round as well |
| 07:12:02 | seven: | And sorting out those who failed to vote last year, etc. |
| 07:12:08 | FrankW: | http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Chief_Returning_Officer |
| 07:12:09 | sigq: | Title: Chief Returning Officer - OSGeo Wiki ( at wiki.osgeo.org ) |
| 07:12:26 | TylerM: | okay, dialing |
| 07:12:35 | : | * FrankW disconnectts! |
| 07:12:43 | TylerM: | we're going to lose markus and ari otherwise : ) |
| 07:13:23 | : | * seven absolutely hates Skype! Kicked me. |
| 07:13:27 | zool: | i found it was not too much work and a nice way of connecting with the whole osgeo community |
| 07:13:40 | zool: | and regretted that i stalled the process by giving birth in the middle of it |
| 07:14:39 | zool: | i saw you briefly appear, seven, and then disconnect |
| 07:15:17 | seven: | Problem with silent device. Worked an hour ago. Stupid thing. |
| 07:16:21 | TylerM: | Five in phone call: |
| 07:16:28 | TylerM: | Tyler, Frank, Arnulf, Jo, Jeroen, Ari |
| 07:16:53 | TylerM: | * Arnulf, Jo motion to approve March minutes |
| 07:17:03 | TylerM: | All were in favour. |
| 07:17:25 | TylerM: | * Arnulf, Jo motion to approve April minutes |
| 07:17:29 | zool: | in the background, a robot duck is farting |
| 07:17:51 | TylerM: | * Frank motions, Jo seconds: Approve OSSIM for graduation from incubation with Mark Lucas as VP, OSSIM as recommended by the incubation committee |
| 07:18:12 | TylerM: | ** all were in favour, carried |
| 07:18:36 | TylerM: | * Frank motions, Arnulf seconds: Review and approve the 2008 annual financial report recommended by the Finance committee |
| 07:19:43 | TylerM: | ** +1 from 4, +0 from Jeroen ( didn't have time to review ) - carries |
| 07:21:02 | TylerM: | Discussion to continue in IRC as needed. |
| 07:21:54 | ajolma: | TylerM: we'll meet at UK OSGIS |
| 07:21:59 | seven: | This is a lot more efficient... |
| 07:22:03 | TylerM: | Arnulf motions to close formal call part of meeting. Jo seconds |
| 07:22:08 | TylerM: | ajolma: okay - great! |
| 07:22:20 | TylerM: | Victor Olaya is going too, as well as many UK'ers of course |
| 07:22:25 | TylerM: | looking forward to seeing you |
| 07:22:44 | seven: | Would it be worthwhile to ping Discuss on the Elections for Charter Members and to Board in 2009 - find a CRO, draft a timetable. |
| 07:22:53 | ajolma: | TylerM: me too, let's exchange some emails about it |
| 07:24:28 | TylerM: | One note re: Charity status. We made the application to US IRS months ago, something like 6 months ago. I received a letter a couple months ago basically saying our applications was not so "standard" and would be referred to another group for further review. |
| 07:25:05 | TylerM: | So not much to say, just that it's all in their hands now |
| 07:25:10 | seven: | hehe, standards... |
| 07:25:24 | seven: | as if the knew anything about that. |
| 07:25:27 | TylerM: | yeah, means one answer must have given too much info ;- ) |
| 07:25:40 | TylerM: | normal is boring anyway |
| 07:25:45 | ticheler: | TylerM: is that to be concerned about? |
| 07:26:01 | zool: | okay, at least it's in train |
| 07:26:08 | TylerM: | The main question will be around having to pay taxes or not |
| 07:26:15 | TylerM: | which finance committee is starting to discuss. |
| 07:26:20 | ticheler: | sure |
| 07:26:25 | ticheler: | ? |
| 07:26:34 | TylerM: | Ideally, we'd have the approval, then be able to follow up using the charitable status rules. But until then we're kind of in limbo. |
| 07:26:38 | ticheler: | are they starting to discuss paying taxes |
| 07:26:47 | ticheler: | or the impact in case we have to? |
| 07:26:59 | TylerM: | We're just looking into the need to file some tax reports.. it's not entirely clear. |
| 07:27:02 | FrankW: | we have not discussed the impact if we have to. |
| 07:27:11 | ticheler: | ok |
| 07:27:19 | FrankW: | I don't think there is much chance of that. At worst we would need to register as a different kind of non-profit. |
| 07:29:32 | seven: | Shall we post a request for an Elections Officer on Discuss the disucss mailing list. |
| 07:29:35 | seven: | ? |
| 07:30:23 | FrankW: | that seems reasonable. We should note they need to already be a charter member and that they are not willing to run for the board. |
| 07:30:31 | zool: | either way we must file some kind of tax return, and do that historically, so there will be accountancy expense but hopefully not signfificant |
| 07:30:51 | seven: | FrankW: I will write something and ping it to you. |
| 07:32:51 | FrankW: | seven: ok, though I would not mind your just doing it! |
| 07:34:21 | ticheler: | TylerM: you can change my vote for the financial report to +1 if that is allowed |
| 07:34:34 | ticheler: | otherwise keep it at +0 :- ) |
| 07:35:00 | FrankW: | I do think abstaining ( +0 ) is quite acceptable |
| 07:35:05 | TylerM: | okay, I think I have to leave it : ) |
| 07:35:11 | ticheler: | NP |
| 07:35:43 | FrankW: | I was surprised no one wanted to see our financial year compared to our budget. |
| 07:36:37 | TylerM: | I thought about it at least ; ) |
| 07:37:20 | TylerM: | I'm curious how much travel $ I saved staying home ; ) |
| 07:37:26 | TylerM: | for a year |
| 07:37:42 | ticheler: | I think the bottomline made most of us hapy ;- ) |
| 07:37:42 | FrankW: | I notice we had 7K of income from the geocamp in ottawa, but I wasn't clear were the corresponding expenses ended up. |
| 07:37:44 | ticheler: | happy |
| 07:38:01 | FrankW: | Did the expenses get burried in the promotional area? |
| 07:39:13 | TylerM: | not sure off top of my head.. net income from it was $1k |
| 07:39:23 | : | * FrankW cedes laptop to wife... |
| 07:39:25 | TylerM: | just typing up minutes at the moment |
| 07:41:07 | : | * seven dops off now. Will be back later. |
| 07:41:13 | zool: | hm i thought the issue was more the integrity of the accounts than the financial status of the foundation |
| 07:41:17 | seven: | Have a nice weekend. |
| 07:41:40 | zool: | though that's an issue that will become pressing soon. |
| 07:42:19 | TylerM: | i'm trying to set up a meeting with an accountant to help give some advice on several fronts. |
| 07:42:26 | zool: | whether this is the right scale / of interest i don't know but i wanted to point out the open knowledge foundation's new pledgebank based supporter drive |
| 07:43:21 | zool: | http://www.en-gb.pledgebank.com/support-okfn |
| 07:43:23 | sigq: | Title: 'I will set up a standing order of at least £5 a month to help the Open Knowledge Foundation keep developing and promoting open knowledge' - PledgeBank ( at www.en-gb.pledgebank.com ) |
| 07:43:57 | zool: | as a means of allowing people to commit to support without having to commit funds right away - trying to raise 6k to cover running expenses, hosting, grantwriting |
| 07:44:14 | TylerM: | hmm yeah sounds good |
| 07:44:20 | TylerM: | biab |
| 07:44:23 | zool: | TylerM did you ping cholmes? i think he does know some 'activist accountant' |
| 07:44:26 | TylerM: | nice to see you all |
| 07:44:32 | zool: | be well |
| 07:44:58 | TylerM: | zool: I'm going to check this local company out first and see .. then at least I can talk to someone face to face |
| 07:45:24 | zool: | nod, the US nonprofit specialisation is probably important though? |
| 07:45:28 | FrankW: | I suspect we will need US assistance for filing a US return. |
| 07:45:51 | TylerM: | right.. this company has an affiliate in the US they use for that stuff... apparently.. I'll find out : ) |
| 07:55:58 | kees___: | hey people, does anyone have a good doc on how mapserver, geoserver, degree, geonetwork os, postgis, etc relate to eachother and whic combinations provide good working SDI's? |
| 07:58:09 | ticheler: | kees___: I have a graphic that shows their relationship |
| 07:58:27 | kees___: | ticheler: that would be nice |
| 07:58:33 | kees___: | I'll pm my email if that is ok |
| 07:58:38 | kees___: | or do you have it online? |
| 07:58:43 | ticheler: | and I also know there was a similar, but more comprehensive graphic made by Prodevelop if I remember well |
| 07:58:56 | ticheler: | yes, it is online |
| 07:59:01 | ticheler: | one sec... searching |
| 08:03:04 | ticheler: | BTW, also look at this: http://gallery.osgeo.org/ |
| 08:03:06 | sigq: | Title: OSGeo.org | Your Open Source Compass ( at gallery.osgeo.org ) |
| 08:07:59 | kees___: | ticheler: that gallery is nice |
| 08:08:04 | ticheler: | kees___: Look in this presentation ( sorry, it is a little old ) http://osgeo.org/files/viscom/library/ticheler_2006a.ppt |
| 08:08:26 | ticheler: | groeten! |
| 08:08:35 | kees___: | ticheler: 404 page not found |
| 08:08:37 | kees___: | : ) |
| 08:08:40 | kees___: | groeten |
| 08:08:47 | ticheler: | :-( |
| 08:09:46 | ticheler: | structure of site must have changed... |
| 08:09:55 | kees___: | I'll search |
| 08:09:58 | ticheler: | http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Library |
| 08:09:59 | sigq: | Title: Library - OSGeo Wiki ( at wiki.osgeo.org ) |
| 08:10:37 | ticheler: | only a few of them have been moved to the library I see |
| 08:10:51 | ticheler: | I can email it to you |
| 08:11:00 | kees___: | would be nice |
| 08:13:24 | ticheler: | is 4Mb ok in the email? |
| 08:35:02 | sigq: | osgeofeed: Ticket #378 ( task created ): benchmarking@lists.osgeo.org <http://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/ticket/378> |
| 08:43:20 | sigq: | osgeofeed: Ticket #378 ( task closed ): benchmarking@lists.osgeo.org <http://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/ticket/378#comment:1> |
| 09:07:12 | sigq: | osgeofeed: Ticket #379 ( task created ): Trac/SVN/mailman for spatialindex <http://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/ticket/379> |
| 09:24:03 | TylerM: | ticheler: you just got the file name wrong, I think meant .pdf |
| 09:24:04 | TylerM: | http://www.osgeo.org/files/viscom/library/ticheler_2006a.ppt |
| 09:26:04 | TylerM: | that's a really good one |
| 12:13:14 | SmokeyD: | hey people. Does geonetwork only store metadata, or is there also functionality to upload and store geodata in the local filesystem or postgis or something? |
| 12:25:29 | crschmidt: | I believe it's the former. |
| 12:33:03 | wildintellect: | I concur, just metadata- you can link to the files though |
| 12:33:24 | wildintellect: | so it would be possible to extend it to handle uploading |
| 13:03:35 | SmokeyD: | wildintellect: hmm, ok. Is there any FOSS solution which allows users to upload geodata in a couple of common formats ( supported by OGR/GDAL ) and store it in a backend like postgis, and combine it with metadata recording. Like geonetwork, but extended with ogr/gdal conversion functionality and a storage backend like postigs? |
| 13:03:55 | crschmidt: | I'm not aware of anything like that at this time. |
| 13:05:53 | wildintellect: | I agree, it currently does not a exist as a package you just install - very buildable though with the tools out there |
| 13:06:33 | SmokeyD: | yeah It is very buildable, just wanted to make sure I won't do double work |
| 13:06:38 | SmokeyD: | thanks for the input |
| 13:07:20 | SmokeyD: | I think I will write something that uses geonetwork for the data search and metadata storage, and uses postgis for vector data storage and maybe file storage for raster data |
| 13:07:57 | wildintellect: | seems reasonable - geonetwork bundles geoserver so you could hook into that for serving the data |
| 13:08:32 | SmokeyD: | build a webinterface which allows uploading |
| 13:08:48 | SmokeyD: | wildintellect: does it? Hmm, that makes it more interesting |
| 13:09:52 | wildintellect: | they probably have in mind what you want to do and just haven't gotten there |
| 13:10:00 | SmokeyD: | wildintellect: : ) |
| 13:10:10 | SmokeyD: | hmm, I should contact them then and see if I can contribute |
| 13:10:11 | SmokeyD: | : ) |
| 13:11:43 | wildintellect: | email list is the best, #geonetwork is fairly quiet |
| 13:12:25 | SmokeyD: | wildintellect: ok cool |
| 13:12:28 | SmokeyD: | thanks for the input |
| 13:51:53 | TylerM: | SmokeyD: I am interested in similar functionality, having toyed with the upload/cataloguing idea for a couple years... but i'm no web developer ; ) |
| 13:52:58 | SmokeyD: | TylerM: I think I could do it just fine. It just boils down to making a nice webinterface to pre-existing stuff |
| 13:53:32 | SmokeyD: | I mean storage could be done in postgis and local files, visualisation using openlayers or something, metadata using geonetwork |
| 13:53:59 | TylerM: | there is a certain level of metadata that you likely want, but is not part of geonetwork by default. |
| 13:54:13 | TylerM: | e.g. properties that gdal/ogr and postgis maintain. |
| 13:54:31 | SmokeyD: | you mean like SRS, extent, etc? |
| 13:54:34 | TylerM: | I can tell you more if you like. I have a python script to create a basic set of metadata properties for most gdal/ogr datatypes. |
| 13:54:54 | TylerM: | yes and number of attribute items, types, number of features, etc. |
| 13:55:05 | SmokeyD: | yeah, ok indeed |
| 13:55:10 | SmokeyD: | you definately need that yea |
| 13:55:16 | SmokeyD: | could I see that script? |
| 13:55:31 | TylerM: | yeah one sec |
| 13:55:40 | SmokeyD: | cool, thanks |
| 13:55:47 | TylerM: | i blogged about it last year i think |
| 13:55:56 | SmokeyD: | I finally got a project I could contribute to in the osgeo area. |
| 13:56:02 | SmokeyD: | : ) yeah! |
| 13:56:21 | TylerM: | oh.. if you want to work together.. ( err have one more opinion ) let me know ; ) |
| 13:56:34 | TylerM: | here you go... http://spatialguru.com/ideas/data_cataloguing_background |
| 13:56:36 | sigq: | Title: A Case For Low-Level Metadata Collection | Spatialguru.com ( at spatialguru.com ) |
| 13:56:39 | TylerM: | way more than you want to know ;- ) |
| 13:56:51 | TylerM: | and http://spatialguru.com/code/xml_catalogue_format |
| 13:56:53 | sigq: | Title: XML to describe and catalogue datasets | Spatialguru.com ( at spatialguru.com ) |
| 13:57:18 | SmokeyD: | there is never more than I want to know. I want to know everything ; ) |
| 13:57:21 | SmokeyD: | just lack the time |
| 13:57:41 | SmokeyD: | : ) |
| 13:58:13 | SmokeyD: | TylerM: you are doing the keynote on the osgis UK conference right? |
| 13:58:19 | SmokeyD: | are you sticking around afterwards? |
| 13:58:24 | SmokeyD: | I am attending the conference |
| 13:58:41 | TylerM: | hey yeah, that's right |
| 13:58:59 | TylerM: | and yes, I'm around the following day too - looking to learn more about UNottingham scene |
| 13:59:15 | TylerM: | will you be at the osgeo UK meetup? |
| 13:59:43 | SmokeyD: | when is that? I am not living in the UK, I have to fly back to NL the day after the conference |
| 13:59:54 | TylerM: | same night as the event |
| 13:59:57 | TylerM: | i'll be there |
| 14:00:26 | SmokeyD: | cool. I will have to check if I can get back to manchester the following morning then |
| 14:00:33 | SmokeyD: | in time for my flight |
| 14:00:51 | TylerM: | cool |
| 14:01:00 | SmokeyD: | I will definately try |
| 14:01:04 | TylerM: | see you there.. I'll be the one wearing the "Hello My Name is Tyler" tag |
| 14:01:19 | SmokeyD: | : ) |
| 14:01:20 | SmokeyD: | cool |
| 14:01:23 | SmokeyD: | thanks for your input |
| 14:01:38 | SmokeyD: | I am still struggling to find a fgood thing to really get involved in |
| 14:01:43 | SmokeyD: | seems I found something now |
| 14:01:44 | TylerM: | glad to hear you are interested in similar idea. my end goal was the same as yours, but I got buried in metadata : ) |
| 14:01:57 | TylerM: | the idea was to also catalogue all my existing data first |
| 14:02:14 | TylerM: | then lock out all end users from using the file system : ) and go through web interfaces. |
| 14:02:22 | TylerM: | .. more detailed thoughts than that, but you get the picture. |
| 14:03:25 | SmokeyD: | yeah, I would agree on the same approach. I was asked on my thoughts to setup a sharing portal for geodata for some nature conservation ngo's in ethiopia. Webinterface would be the way to go then to make it easy for them to use |
| 14:15:17 | wildintellect: | TylerM, I might be back to talk about that python-xml script at some point, I think we could roll it into the qgis plugin I started |
| 14:15:31 | TylerM: | wildintellect: sweet! |
| 14:23:05 | SmokeyD: | TylerM: I read the first article. Your use cases seem to fit mine. I think it would be easy to write some webapp that provides upload functionality of some common fileformats which then get read by gdal/ogr to convert to a common storage backend, and at the same time pass it through your script and store the resulting xml file in the same backend. If desired geonetwork could then be plugged-in to store their kind of geodata and do the sharing, sea |
| 14:23:36 | SmokeyD: | it is 00:30 right now over here so I am calling it a day but I'll continue on it this weekend some more |
| 14:23:50 | TylerM: | Okay.. |
| 14:23:52 | SmokeyD: | I have a project at hand which I could write hours on for developing something like that |
| 14:24:05 | TylerM: | I was planning to fold the results of scripting into geonetwork at some point |
| 14:24:07 | SmokeyD: | thanks for the input! I really appreciate it |
| 14:24:14 | TylerM: | cool.. good on ya! take it easy |
| 14:24:26 | SmokeyD: | yeah I also thought putting it back in geonetwork would be interesting |
| 14:24:46 | TylerM: | that was my ultimate goal.. too |
| 14:25:03 | SmokeyD: | but we could offer both. Provide a simple webinterface to browse datasets, and only fold back into geonetwork if geonetwork is desired |
| 14:25:22 | TylerM: | right-o |
| 14:25:48 | TylerM: | and of course since all the low level metadata is available.. you could 'export' to a MapServer config file or into a QGIS project file, etc... |
| 14:25:54 | wildintellect: | was requested that my plugin has a push to geonetwork |
| 14:26:01 | SmokeyD: | TylerM: indeed |
| 14:26:23 | wildintellect: | and now that I think about it I'm working on a django app that will probably incorporate at least shp, kml upload |
| 14:26:57 | wildintellect: | for display on an OL map |
| 14:27:02 | SmokeyD: | you could write all sorts of functionality then for downloading formats and online webmapping frameworks |
| 14:27:03 | TylerM: | cool |
| 14:27:28 | TylerM: | I started laying out my higher level project mgt app in django as well, though nothing spatial so far.. so I'll be keen to see what you've done : ) |
| 14:27:59 | wildintellect: | it's all on the drawing board right now - probably should work on it some today |
| 14:28:32 | SmokeyD: | TylerM: is the consensus that Django is the best framework for python web mapping apps? I am used to use turbogears/pylons for normal webapps but I could switch to Django if most webmappers use it |
| 14:28:45 | TylerM: | heh - no comment : ) I really don't know |
| 14:28:50 | SmokeyD: | ok |
| 14:28:56 | SmokeyD: | : ) I'll look into it |
| 14:28:58 | wildintellect: | SmokeyD, I had this discussion recently |
| 14:29:07 | SmokeyD: | wildintellect: ok, cool |
| 14:29:15 | SmokeyD: | what are your thoughts on it? |
| 14:29:36 | wildintellect: | I'm leaning towards django because I need auth per map object |
| 14:29:58 | wildintellect: | meaning permission down to the level of each point in a layer |
| 14:30:10 | wildintellect: | and I've been told geodjango wraps postgis well |
| 14:30:27 | TylerM: | cool |
| 14:30:29 | SmokeyD: | I never used Django. I can imagine this being tricky in Turbogears though. |
| 14:30:36 | wildintellect: | pylons is my runner up, since mapfish server backend went along that route |
| 14:30:36 | SmokeyD: | wildintellect: sounds interesting |
| 14:30:49 | wildintellect: | but the django permissions management seemed more ready to use |
| 14:31:44 | TylerM: | i never checkedout turbogears for some reason.. or skipped it early on and just forget |
| 14:32:06 | SmokeyD: | wildintellect: yeah premissions aren't that finegrained in turbogears/pylons, although it will be possible. |
| 14:32:14 | TylerM: | my test case was comparing ruby on rails with django.. by trying the 'getting started' tutorial of each and seeing which I was actually able to complete ;- ) |
| 14:32:28 | TylerM: | i'm so scientific :D |
| 14:32:29 | SmokeyD: | :D |
| 14:32:39 | SmokeyD: | I am like that as well sometimes |
| 14:32:43 | SmokeyD: | often actually |
| 14:32:44 | SmokeyD: | : ) |
| 14:33:01 | wildintellect: | fyi camptocamp is in to pylons, more of the openlayers/pythoners seem to be towards django |
| 14:33:59 | SmokeyD: | wildintellect: ok. thanks for the input. I am kind of tired right now but I will write some ideas down now and get back into it tomorrow or sunday or something. I'll be back in here definately to discuss |
| 14:34:49 | wildintellect: | I use the same test often |
| 14:35:17 | wildintellect: | sounds good |
| 14:35:22 | TylerM: | i liked not having to think MVC MVC MVC when doing Django.. unlike in RoR tutorials : ) heh |
| 14:36:30 | wildintellect: | ruby while is sounds nice, is on my only if I have to list - python just seems more straight forward to read code |
| 14:58:20 | SmokeyD: | TylerM, wildintellect: while I was writing stuff down so I don't forget a thought occured: why not just contribute to geoserver+geonetwork combination to add this functionality. Together those two seem to do most of what we want ( data storage and metadata storage, WFC, WMS, etc ). Why not just add upload functionality and the extra dataset properties reading and storage ( in the xml file ) |
| 14:59:12 | SmokeyD: | instead of develop again another webapp it might be more efficiënt to just add functionality to existing well working projects |
| 14:59:47 | TylerM: | not a bad idea.. my goals were less ambitious and probably those platforms are overkill for me needs |
| 15:00:34 | TylerM: | I try build in very small modular chunks so they can be reused and built on top of.. python works perfect for me in this respect. |
| 15:00:39 | SmokeyD: | TylerM: ok. Maybe split it up in two. Some background stuff in python which anyone could use, and then the possibility to tie it in to geonetwork and geoserver for a frontend |
| 15:00:51 | SmokeyD: | you were just ahead of me |
| 15:00:52 | SmokeyD: | : ) |
| 15:01:00 | TylerM: | : ) |
| 15:01:17 | SmokeyD: | we even seem to like the same cms for websites: drupal : ) |
| 15:01:22 | TylerM: | I'm not really thinking in terms of frontend except to say 'web-based' : ) |
| 15:01:28 | SmokeyD: | ok |
| 15:01:44 | SmokeyD: | yeah I definately need a frontend for users |
| 15:01:54 | TylerM: | I barely program and I'm trying to stick with Python as I end up getting a bit more collaboration from other wannabe programmers |
| 15:01:55 | TylerM: | ; ) |
| 15:02:14 | wildintellect: | I think either approach would work here |
| 15:02:49 | TylerM: | unless I misunderstand geoserver, I don't think either of them are intended to be data management platforms.. which is what i really want |
| 15:03:17 | wildintellect: | checking with both those projects to see where their roadmap is going in regards to data upload would be a sane idea |
| 15:03:24 | SmokeyD: | hmm. I'll try to talk to them this weekend and see their views on it. |
| 15:03:35 | SmokeyD: | Now I am really going to bed : ) |
| 15:03:40 | TylerM: | sure sure ; ) |
| 15:03:47 | SmokeyD: | : ) |
| 15:04:22 | TylerM: | I don't think I can handle requiring a java-based web backend for my use cases |
| 15:04:33 | SmokeyD: | wildintellect: could I get your real name so I can also mention talking to you about it? |
| 15:05:05 | SmokeyD: | TylerM: well, the project I hope to start will need it's own server anyway, so I don't mind requiring java. although I am not a java programmer really |
| 15:05:31 | SmokeyD: | my name is Dolf Andringa by the way |
| 15:05:32 | SmokeyD: | : ) |
| 15:05:36 | TylerM: | plus i really like being able to hit GDAL/OGR directly with python in ways I've been doing for years. anyway, I'm sure it could be done a hundred different ways well : ) |
| 15:05:46 | TylerM: | email me you contact info at tmitchell - osgeo.org |
| 15:05:55 | SmokeyD: | TylerM: yeah my preference is on python as well. Real quick |
| 15:05:58 | wildintellect: | lol, Alex, although most of them will know me by my moniker since my domain is also wildintellect |
| 15:06:06 | SmokeyD: | ok |
| 15:06:07 | SmokeyD: | cool |
| 15:06:18 | TylerM: | then we can keep in touch re: UK event too |
| 15:06:22 | SmokeyD: | TylerM: ok, willdo tomorrow |
| 15:06:27 | TylerM: | ~yawn~ |
| 15:06:33 | TylerM: | have a good nigh |
| 15:06:35 | TylerM: | night |
| 15:06:35 | SmokeyD: | indeed |
| 15:06:36 | SmokeyD: | : ) |
| 15:06:37 | SmokeyD: | thanks |
| 15:06:38 | SmokeyD: | you to |
| 15:06:42 | SmokeyD: | whenever that is |
| 15:06:43 | TylerM: | cya |
| 15:06:46 | TylerM: | : ) |
| 15:06:49 | TylerM: | not tired here yet |
| 15:06:57 | TylerM: | western canada |
| 15:09:29 | TylerM: | wildintellect: I see this as middleware - where the map serving platforms and cataloguing platforms don't necessarily care to spend much time. it's more an implementation of their techs than contributing to them. |
| 15:10:00 | wildintellect: | I agree |
| 15:10:32 | wildintellect: | from my perspective that would make it easier to implement as a desktop app too |
| 15:10:56 | TylerM: | oh yeah, forgot about that side.. which is part of my goal too |
| 15:11:19 | TylerM: | the web UI would only be an example of a web instance to the underlying toolset |
| 15:11:28 | wildintellect: | exactly |
| 15:11:50 | wildintellect: | and we can easily extend the plugin I've got to allow for easy desktop usage with a UI |
| 15:12:28 | TylerM: | it's always the un-sexiest part of programming I think ; ) |
| 15:13:09 | TylerM: | getting hardcore developers interested is always a challenge on this stuff, so I take the power-user n00b-programmer approach :D |