#OSGEO IRC Log - 2009-12-03

For logs after Feb 3, 2007, all times are GMT-8. Prior logs are GMT-9.
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00:33:16 CIA-82: osgeo: jmays * r2743 /marketing/flyer/ ( 2 files in 2 dirs ): minor text changes
00:34:18 sigq: osgeofeed: Changeset [2743]: minor text changes <http://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/changeset/2743>
04:58:56 sigq: osgeofeed: Changeset [2744]: added links to files+vids <http://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/changeset/2744>
04:59:02 CIA-27: osgeo: simonh * r2744 /foss4g/2009/website/foss4g09_staticmatic/ ( 42 files in 31 dirs ): added links to files+vids
05:29:26 TylerM: seven_: good morning
05:31:58 seven_: Morning
05:43:02 spacedman: Afternoon. hey TylerM I got onto the OJS site from home, so job done thx
05:43:27 TylerM: spacedman: whew! I was starting to wonder : )
05:43:47 TylerM: thx for letting me know.
05:43:57 spacedman: i think my ffox had some basic authentication thing stuck in its guts
05:43:59 TylerM: I guess your lost packets will wash up on an Icelandic beach sometime soon ; )
05:44:07 TylerM: ah i see
05:46:29 ajolma: board meeting in 7 minutes? am I in the correct place and time? : )
05:46:38 TylerM: hi ajolma - looking good!
05:46:48 ajolma: hi TylerM
05:49:45 TylerM: hi ravivundavalli - good to see you
05:50:20 ravivundavalli: Hi .. me too
05:50:29 TylerM: ajolma: thanks for the eurogi note - that looks good
05:51:40 TylerM: Any of you subversion masters know what this means? "svn: Unrecognized URL scheme for 'https://svn.osgeo.org/osgeo/foss4g/2009/website/foss4g09_staticmatic/site'"
05:51:49 TylerM: started recently
05:52:46 ajolma: My browser says: URL not found.
05:52:47 TylerM: This is on osgeo1
05:53:12 TylerM: ajolma: oh really? that's strange, thx
05:53:18 FrankW: TylerM: you can't use http and https to get to svn from on osgeo1.
05:53:27 FrankW: You need to use the file based scheme.
05:53:46 FrankW: I'm not sure if that reflects a change, but it's been that way at least a month or so.
05:54:24 TylerM: FrankW: ok, thanks, will change.
05:54:37 TylerM: It affected some automated scripts I set up long time ago
05:54:53 : * FrankW rubs sleep out of eyes and tries to skim email before meeting.
05:55:59 : * jmckenna the meeting minutes from last meeting magically appeared in wiki this morning ; )
05:56:23 seven: Board meeting starts.
05:56:39 seven: Can we have a roll call please?
05:56:52 ravivundavalli: Ravi here sir
05:56:54 : * FrankW is present.
05:56:57 TylerM: Tyler here
05:57:08 jmckenna: JeffM here
05:57:08 ajolma: Ari Jolma here
05:57:10 seven: Arnulf is here.
05:57:18 seven: Cool, thanks.
05:57:20 seven: Appoint meeting secretary
05:57:27 seven: Tyler can you? Please. :- )
05:58:13 TylerM: yes!
05:58:16 seven: Approve minutes for Board Meeting 2009-11-05
05:58:38 seven: I motion to approve the minutes for the Board Meeting 2009-11-05
05:58:55 FrankW: I feel the minutes of 2009-11-05 should show that this was not an official meeting as it occured only via IRC.
05:59:15 seven: Good point.
05:59:18 jmckenna: ok i can edit that now
05:59:20 TylerM: roll call: In attendance: Air, Jeff, Ravi, Frank, Arnulf, Tyler
05:59:45 ajolma: Ari not Air : )
06:00:01 TylerM: good point : )
06:00:50 seven: Thanks. Apart from that are we fine with the minutes. ( This is basically just to make sure that a majority of directors have read them ).
06:01:08 FrankW: +1 to approve minutes as ammended.
06:01:17 seven: Thanks. +1 Arnulf
06:01:33 jmckenna: ammeneded. +1
06:02:16 : * seven taps with her knuckles, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1
06:02:17 seven: approved.
06:02:36 seven: This one here has been floating around my todo lists:
06:02:37 seven: TODO: Arnulf to make motion to change voting protocols via email list.
06:02:42 seven: Anybody know what it is about?
06:02:57 FrankW: Is that related to the voting for directors and charter members?
06:03:07 FrankW: The thing about only being able to cast one vote per person you vote for?
06:03:15 FrankW: We discussed in 2-4 meetings ago.
06:03:38 TylerM: I thought it was more for being able to vote via IRC or via email for board item
06:03:40 TylerM: items
06:03:51 jmckenna: both need to be resolved?
06:04:24 FrankW: possibly - though I'm not sure we can make a change to that aspect of board action since it is determined by state law.
06:04:24 seven: OK. Can we resolve this via mailing list and decide or vote if req. at the next meeting?
06:04:28 TylerM: sure would be nice to have meetings in IRC be "official"
06:04:38 seven: TylerM: Please find out.
06:04:49 seven: Then post to the list so that we can decide.
06:05:04 TylerM: i can't see IRC being treated any differently than, say, a phone call... but yup, I can look into it.
06:05:11 seven: I guess we would all be in favor of being able to do votes as per email and IRC.
06:05:17 FrankW: I would like to see the adjustment to voting for board/charter members made since we seemed to have agreement on it.
06:05:29 TylerM: frank: if you have any pointers to what guided you before, don't hesitate to let me know.
06:05:41 FrankW: TylerM: I believe it was Rich Steele.
06:05:49 TylerM: ah okay
06:05:51 seven: OK. We make it two different issues. Then we can get board/charter done right away.
06:06:13 seven: Anything else on this?
06:06:32 jmckenna: FrankW: yes my memory tells me we agreed to the board/charter voting change also
06:06:49 FrankW: who is going to revise the voting protocol? Tyler as well? I'd be willing to take that on if we wished.
06:07:01 TylerM: that'd be nice, thx
06:07:03 seven: Yes please, FrankW
06:07:09 FrankW: ok, action to me.
06:07:20 jmckenna: meaning: edit the wiki and run the changes past the board? oh ok : )
06:07:36 jmckenna: ignore question
06:07:44 FrankW: jmckenna: right - prepare a revision and bring a motion to the board to adopt it.
06:07:45 seven: Tyler, please collect the action Items in the protocol.
06:07:49 jmckenna: ok
06:08:09 TylerM: seven: in the minutes? yes
06:08:13 seven: Good. Aynthing else to this point?
06:08:17 seven: TylerM: Yes.
06:08:48 seven: Ok, next item:
06:08:50 seven: FOSS4G 2010 contract has been signed. Now waiting for budget, some discussion.
06:09:04 seven: I received the budget through FOSS4G private this morning.
06:09:17 jmckenna: yes, 3 hours ago :(
06:09:22 seven: And sent it to the board-priv list because I was not sure whether this is a public document.
06:09:37 seven: So I guess no one had time to review it.
06:09:42 : * seven neither
06:09:44 FrankW: I did not.
06:09:53 seven: Then we cannot do anything about it.
06:10:07 seven: I will ask Lorenzo whether he gets into trouble if he has to wait until January.
06:10:09 FrankW: Does anyone who has looked at it have comments?
06:10:16 TylerM: any particular points you noticed worth discussing today seven?
06:10:38 : * seven neither means: She got the docs but did not read them yet.
06:10:48 FrankW: gotcha
06:10:52 FrankW: Jeff?
06:10:57 jmckenna: not yet. i have looked at old and new...i need to see whether they have updated their proposed costs ( venue etc )...not clear yet to me because of currency change
06:11:30 seven: OK. What i gathered from private is that they have slightly raised prices.
06:11:33 FrankW: Anyone have thoughts on Paul's point about last minute priciing and generally whether we want to charge what the market will bear?
06:12:06 seven: Yes. I think for the next CFP we should suggest a fixed price and a higher revenue.
06:12:24 seven: Then the LOC needs to accomodate within those bounds.
06:12:56 seven: For 2010 we should let the LOC decide as they have committed to it on the groundof the CFP.
06:13:06 jmckenna: we can definitely recommend a modified return to OSGeo for the 2011 RFP
06:13:19 FrankW: I'm good with that as long as the budget meets the profit goal in a conservative scenario.
06:13:28 seven: jmckenna: +1
06:13:29 TylerM: I notice in current one the net revenue for 600 attendees is 24k, and for 1000 attendees is only 29k. In fact the amount of revenue per attendee decreases as total number grows.. I'll follow up on that.
06:13:32 seven: FrankW: +1
06:13:51 TylerM: I agree too
06:14:03 ravivundavalli: +1
06:14:12 seven: TylerM: Thanks. We definitely must ( have to ) approve at the next board meeting.
06:14:21 FrankW: It is certainly desirable if we have a windfall if we have a large turnout.
06:14:23 seven: So any discussion and changes should take plave before that meeting.
06:14:29 seven: That means this year.
06:14:43 seven: I will write an email to the board list as a reminder.
06:14:47 TylerM: right, let's please discuss on list ASAP
06:14:49 TylerM: there you go : )
06:15:12 seven: OK. Any other questions on FOSS4G?
06:15:14 TylerM: eventually, if we can get an email vote going, it will at least help to nudge directors to review it sooner
06:15:22 TylerM: just one note,
06:15:42 TylerM: in marketing committee we'll be discussing further about how to make FOSS4G a big deal for OSGeo...
06:15:53 TylerM: previously it's been a bit of an "after thought" for marketing committee.
06:16:11 TylerM: And then one person is stuck coordinating everything, and there are lots of feedback
06:16:18 TylerM: about what we 'could have' done.
06:16:23 : * hobu surfaces
06:16:25 hobu: sorry
06:16:36 TylerM: we'll ask for a foss4g loc representative to join marketing discussions on this topic as well.
06:16:46 seven: Good. Jeff and others also have hopes to make FOSS4G more of "the" OSGeo conference in the next years.
06:16:53 seven: All of these efforts go in that direction.
06:17:22 TylerM: This should serve well to help also 'tighten' the link between osgeo and the event that we have learned does not happen naturally on its own.
06:17:33 TylerM: that's all from here
06:17:36 seven: 5, 4, 3, ...
06:17:48 seven: ajolma: Should OSGeo become a member of or associated friend organisation ( as with OGCMoU ) with EUROGI?
06:17:51 FrankW: what about board rep and stuff for the LOC? Is that to be settled now?
06:18:03 : * seven holds her breath
06:18:15 seven: FrankW: You are right.
06:18:36 seven: Paul suggested Claude Philippona as representative of a past conference.
06:18:48 TylerM: pona: is lurking too : )
06:18:57 FrankW: Any response from Claude?
06:18:58 seven: I am ignorant whether Claude confirmed that he is prepared to do this.
06:19:06 jmckenna: ( sorry was pulled away for 5 )
06:19:28 seven: Claude is ultra-connected. We should be able to ping him right now.
06:19:40 TylerM: ( jmckenna: we can follow up after for thoughts re: marketing and foss4g if you have more )
06:19:55 : * seven looks at the array of IMs and social crapworks. Which to choose?
06:20:24 : * FrankW had hoped irc might do it.
06:20:25 TylerM: he's here in fact : )
06:20:44 TylerM: ping pona... guess he's busy : )
06:20:53 FrankW: Also, I presumed Jeff should be on the LOC as conference chair, and we could have one other board member as board liason?
06:20:59 jmckenna: ( TylerM: +1 )
06:21:06 seven: He is there already ( at least I thought so ).
06:21:09 FrankW: I'm suggesting Arnulf for that role if willing.
06:21:29 jmckenna: FrankW: yes i wondered that too ( which hat i wear )
06:21:43 FrankW: Since you have already done a good job on the contract. The board liason's main responsibility to related to budgetary monitoring.
06:21:44 seven: I am willing. Will polish up my Spanish some.
06:21:45 TylerM: yes, it should help to have the roles clear
06:21:51 TylerM: bueno
06:21:54 pieterdg: sorry for interrupting this, but i was wondering if a date has been set for the next incubation committee meeting?
06:22:07 seven: No, that is up to the Incubation chair.
06:22:10 FrankW: pieterdg: no, I'm afraid one has not.
06:22:27 jmckenna: personally i would like to be involved in LOC meeting calls ( every year but this year i have been )...unfortunately it seems to be a language issue and i feel detached
06:22:29 pieterdg: k, thx
06:22:42 seven: Hm. Seems like Claude is not willing. :- )
06:23:05 seven: Lets defer, but I am pretty sure that he will happily do it.
06:23:55 seven: Do we need anything more formal than this? I am happy to tell the LOC what we decided after getting a nod from pona.
06:24:05 TylerM: someone to motion making these LOC reps?
06:24:34 : * seven would like to have someone else to make the motion.
06:25:19 seven: Arnulf for Board-, Claude for past chair-, Jeff for Conference Committee representatives.
06:25:27 : * FrankW motions to have Arnulf, Claude and Jeff on the FOSS4G 2010 LOC as board rep, conf. commitee rep, and past conf rep.
06:25:32 : * FrankW typed too slow.
06:25:36 seven: Second. +1
06:25:37 TylerM: well done : )
06:25:54 : * seven has an advantage because her lag time is shorter.
06:25:59 ajolma: +1 from me to FrankW's motion
06:26:00 jmckenna: ( still learning this motion stuff..i don't have the OGC meeting training )
06:26:01 FrankW: +1
06:26:14 ravivundavalli: +1
06:26:19 hobu: +1 ( though motion not legit unless done via voice or unanimous email vote, right? )
06:26:25 jmckenna: +1
06:26:40 seven: OGC is: Are there objections to unanimous consent? No, motion passes. Much quicker... :- )
06:26:42 FrankW: hobu is correct - this is not an official motion - just capturing the support of those present.
06:26:45 FrankW: I hesitated to call it a motion.
06:26:54 seven: hobu: +1
06:27:14 seven: Nonetheless we can get going with theLOC and tell them.
06:27:16 : * hobu tacks big agenda item to the end of the list
06:27:22 ajolma: that was a LOC-a-motion
06:27:41 TylerM: : )
06:27:43 seven: hobu: Did you hae time to dig up an alternative to Skype?
06:27:59 hobu: no, unfortunately
06:28:11 seven: hobu: +1 for your new topic. Sounds fun.
06:28:15 seven: Back to the agenda:
06:28:42 seven: ajolma:
06:28:57 seven: Do you want to explain abotu EUROGI.
06:29:08 seven: or can we expect that directors know about it
06:29:09 seven: ?
06:29:15 ajolma: hmm, I did in my email.. did you get and read it?
06:29:28 seven: Booth yes.
06:29:28 ajolma: it was sent to board-priv
06:29:44 seven: Did anyone not get it?
06:29:52 FrankW: My first impression is that I'm hesitant to pop 1000 euro's for this EUROGI involvement without more convincing about the positive ramifications likely.
06:30:13 ajolma: I did not realize that MoU could be a possibility too
06:30:17 FrankW: but if several european directors were in support I wouldn't mind it happening.
06:30:31 seven: My first impression is that we might want to have an association with them at eye level. Not as members.
06:30:41 seven: Does that make sense?
06:30:41 TylerM: As long as there are directors ready, willing and able to make best us of it.
06:30:50 TylerM: that'd be more interesting for sure
06:31:05 ajolma: they are doing such with another org, so that's an option
06:31:20 pona: here I am
06:31:25 seven: ajolma: Are you interested in following up on this?
06:31:29 seven: pona: Thanks.
06:31:40 ajolma: seven: meaning what?
06:31:44 seven: pona: Would you be willling to serve a past conference chair in the new LOC?
06:31:53 TylerM: for 2010
06:32:04 seven: ajolma: Contact them and ask whether we can bacome an associated organization.
06:32:12 pona: Yes I already answered to Paul' email
06:32:18 ajolma: yeah, I can do that
06:32:22 seven: I can help. We might even want to meet with them in real life.
06:32:51 seven: Excellent.
06:32:58 seven: Any questions on this?
06:33:06 ajolma: There's something like members day in Brussels in March I think
06:33:11 TylerM: sounds good
06:33:19 jmckenna: LOC means being available and following email threads, joining conference calls, giving general feedback from experience - and this is usually most important in the early months ( now for the next few months ).
06:33:40 FrankW: ( and helping scare up sponsors )
06:34:05 seven: ajolma: Brussels for me is around the corner. We could meet there if you like. Just pop me the date.
06:34:23 ajolma: seven: I look into that
06:34:53 seven: OK. Moving on to the next topic if there is no objection to unanimous consent.
06:35:05 seven: Update from Tyler
06:35:12 seven: Thanks for the email.
06:35:25 seven: That is pretty much what I like to see.
06:35:27 TylerM: Nothing really to add to the one I emailed out.. but if there are thoughts or questions, I'd love to hear them
06:35:28 TylerM: http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/board/2009-December/003156.html
06:35:29 sigq: Title: [Board] Status update ( at lists.osgeo.org )
06:35:43 seven: Are there other ideas from directors what Tyler should post?
06:35:46 TylerM: One note on the 'insurance' question.. I had something lined up that looks good...
06:36:01 TylerM: but the insurance company is having trouble understanding our little nonprofit ..
06:36:13 TylerM: they want to know what kind of contracts we have with our clients : )
06:36:22 TylerM: so I'm back and forth with them still.
06:36:41 seven: I do not envy you for this :- )
06:36:59 TylerM: The insurance broker convinced me that we are more interested in general liability than a directors and officers specific one at this point though. If anyone else has more familiarity with the different, let me know.
06:37:11 TylerM: I'm gettign a quote for both combined though.
06:37:29 jmckenna: can i ask what the plan is for 'continuing financial updates'?
06:38:00 TylerM: that just means i'm updating the financial books regularly in preparation for quarterly reports.
06:38:03 FrankW: jmckenna: is this insurance related or to me as treasurer about foundation finances?
06:38:11 FrankW: Ah, report from tyler - got it.
06:38:29 jmckenna: yes sorry.
06:38:31 TylerM: basically, it never ends ;- )
06:38:34 seven: Any more questions for Tyler?
06:38:58 TylerM: i see hobu added the systems expenses item to agenda, that was the other big thing on my mind
06:39:01 jmckenna: but frank you were right, i guess my questions are reporting from treasurer...my question can wait
06:39:03 TylerM: .. so, good
06:39:25 TylerM: we pull together a quarterly report that usually makes it here to the board
06:39:40 seven: Feel free to ping Tyler any time on what he does. I guess he is still getting too little feedback from us.
06:39:55 seven: This brings me to the next topic:
06:39:57 FrankW: I would note that I have been very negligent with the quarterly reports. I have quarterly reports drafted for q1 and q2.
06:39:57 seven: Update from each director
06:40:08 TylerM: heh - sometimes that's not a bad thing : ) but yes, please corner me with thoughts and ideas.
06:40:16 seven: Cool, Frank is working ahead for 2010
06:40:28 FrankW: q3 to come shortly. But the budgetary summary a few weeks ago was meant to give a current picture.
06:40:32 TylerM: frankw: i think the budget comparison you did in the wiki for Q3 is really useful.. not sure where that ended up
06:40:55 FrankW: It was intended to serve as guidance for a 2010 budget we really ought to have been approving right about now.
06:41:00 jmckenna: i am not question tyler..only wondering how often we check our financial status...i can leave this until later in the meeting if not now
06:41:23 TylerM: no problem, basic answer is quarterly : )
06:41:34 FrankW: we can treat this as the report from the treasurer-director and discuss it further right now as needed.
06:41:35 jmckenna: is that sufficient?
06:42:04 FrankW: I think that is sufficient, though it ought to be more timely.
06:42:14 FrankW: In what regard were you concerned?
06:42:22 jmckenna: i know for my own books it is not...but i am trying to learn OSGeo needs
06:42:40 jmckenna: should we be checking monthly?
06:42:47 FrankW: why?
06:42:47 TylerM: i was hoping to provide at least a bottom line couple of numbers each month, but haven't been doing that too well.
06:42:54 FrankW: What changes on a monthly basis?
06:42:56 seven: We are running a bit out of time. Can we get back to the agenda?
06:43:02 jmckenna: sorry
06:43:12 : * FrankW terminates report from the treasurer-director.
06:43:13 seven: No problem.
06:43:23 TylerM: it would be awelcome discussion on the finance or board list too if you want jeff
06:43:33 seven: If this needs to be discussed send it to theboard list.
06:43:42 seven: yes... :- )
06:43:59 seven: Next item: Update from each director
06:44:14 seven: At the last f 1/2 fboard meeting
06:44:22 hobu: update from hobu: I am currently working on a directed sponsor ( ala GDAL/qgis ) to cover some of the expected OSUOSL SAC hardware expense. Nothing solid, but there's interest, especially given our current growth issues/downtimes.
06:44:28 seven: in Sydney we thought that it might be interesting to get feedback
06:44:43 seven: from directors. What they are up to wrt OSGeo.
06:45:02 seven: I wanted to bring it up here. Is this a good idea?
06:45:03 ajolma: my update was basically in the email to board-priv: the eurogi, and one possible sponsor
06:45:12 seven: Exactly.
06:45:18 ajolma: seven: it is a good idea
06:45:22 FrankW: I'm concerned that opened ended director reports could make the meeting overly long.
06:45:26 FrankW: email reports would be good.
06:45:28 jmckenna: seven: +1
06:45:35 seven: FrankW: +1
06:45:43 ravivundavalli: +1
06:45:52 ajolma: +1 to emails
06:46:12 seven: Excellent. Not a motion I know, but maybe we can just try to write one email a month to the board list wwith some relevant stuff.
06:46:34 seven: Next item:
06:46:35 TylerM: a couple lines in IRC shouldn't take too long either
06:46:36 seven: EU waffles on interoperability.
06:46:42 TylerM: not running on and on like my reports ;- )
06:46:47 : * seven is slightly out of breath already. Sorry.
06:47:00 jmckenna: calm down girl
06:47:15 seven: The FFII has sent a comment to the most recent EU paper on interoperability.
06:47:17 FrankW: You should solicit these messages in the meeting announcement a couple days in advance to remind us.
06:47:38 seven: I would like to see OSGeo do similar things. Is this part of our mission?
06:47:45 seven: This is general quesiton on your opinion.
06:48:06 seven: FrankW: Will do.
06:48:21 FrankW: yes, I think this is part of our mission for stuff with a geospatial aspect.
06:48:53 FrankW: I would be very pleased to have someone prepare an OSGeo "letter of comment" or "letter of support" that we as a board could adopt.
06:49:02 : * jmckenna trys to read and learn about the 'Foundation for a Free Information Infrastructure ( FFII )'
06:49:43 ajolma: As a subscriber to FFII emails I think we could and should do that kind of stuff
06:49:57 ajolma: when it is related to our field
06:50:14 seven: Cool, ajolma do you feel like taking a lead on this?
06:50:33 ajolma: hmm, I didn't say I read those emails :(
06:50:37 seven: Hehe.
06:51:01 seven: I will see what I can do. In the end I brought it up...
06:51:20 FrankW: :- )
06:51:22 seven: Last point:
06:51:24 seven: Authorize up to $22k for hardware purchase for SAC to migrate off of Peer1 and onto OSL [1]
06:51:26 seven: hobu
06:51:33 ajolma: I'll try to glance them a bit more and bring relevant issues to the board
06:51:53 FrankW: hobu: was that intended to fund 3 of the OSL speced servers?
06:52:00 FrankW: Or just two?
06:52:20 hobu: three, I hoped. did I do the math wrong?
06:52:30 FrankW: I don't know, I don't recall the exact pricing.
06:52:43 FrankW: I'm personally not in favor of authorizing funding for more than two at this time.
06:52:51 TylerM: some directors could likely use a bit of background.. http://osuosl.org is willing host us for a very reasonable cost.. but we just need to get some hardware for them to use
06:52:52 sigq: Title: OSUOSL | Open Source Lab ( at osuosl.org )
06:53:20 TylerM: frankw: maybe a link to that q3 budget review would help put things into perspective on the cost side?
06:53:25 FrankW: I don't yet have a clear picture of what the OSL costs are beyond the hardware.
06:53:52 FrankW: http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/2009_Finance_Review
06:53:54 sigq: Title: 2009 Finance Review - OSGeo Wiki ( at wiki.osgeo.org )
06:53:56 TylerM: I'll dig that up.. iirc it's a fraction of our current costs, like 1-2 months of current costs => 1 year at OSL
06:54:05 TylerM: basically electricity and cooling stuff
06:54:10 FrankW: ok
06:54:18 hobu: FrankW: ok. I was hoping to pull the .219 blade stuff into the osl world too. Maybe we should table this until the next meeting ?
06:54:41 hobu: more green too. OSL is in hydroelectric land ; )
06:54:55 FrankW: Well, I'd like to give a goahead now if everyone was with it.
06:55:40 TylerM: for background our current hosting costs for 2 machines is about $1200/month. and hardware upgrade path is painful and costly.
06:56:00 TylerM: I'm all for getting the two machines purchased.
06:56:01 FrankW: So the long term goal is to decommission the peer1 servers ( 15K/yr )
06:56:03 jmckenna: ( thanks for the background )
06:56:04 seven: Could we try to find a hardware sponsor? Anybody got good connections?
06:56:06 seven: Ties into our long neglected sponsorship tasks...
06:56:06 FrankW: and solve our systems performance problems
06:56:08 seven: I can imagine that it could be interesting for a HW vendor.
06:56:35 TylerM: OSL also is willing ( and able ) to help do some administration of our virtual machines that would run on these machines.
06:56:43 hobu: It's becoming rather clear to SAC that we're quickly outgrowing our toss-it-all-on-one-box-at-peer1 approach. Long term, we want to move somewhere cheap to host and ditch the requirement of a SLA.
06:56:47 FrankW: we are hesitant to do this based on random donated hardware. We were hoping to purchase hardware as speced by OSL and assumed suitable for our purpose and them willing to support.
06:56:51 jmckenna: ( boy i see why we are looking for other options now )
06:57:02 TylerM: ( peer1.com is current hosting provider )
06:57:18 seven: FrankW: OK, I got that.
06:57:25 hobu: seven: I am working on a possible directed sponsor that might cover some or most of the hardware cost
06:57:45 hobu: but they are not a hardware vendor. IMO, we want to use whatever OSL is willing to babysit
06:57:49 nhv: looks like moving to OSL will save about 1K$ per month or ~10K$ in one year
06:57:53 seven: Cool. I am in.
06:57:56 TylerM: hobu: through the GDAL or QGIS sponsorship program?
06:58:09 hobu: TylerM: yes, something similar to that except to SAC
06:58:09 FrankW: as osgeo sponsors directly I believe
06:58:17 TylerM: hobu: ahh i see
06:58:29 : * seven notes that we are over time already.
06:58:37 seven: Do we need a motion?
06:58:46 TylerM: but a cash donation specifically?
06:59:00 hobu: TylerM: yes, I think so. It wouldn't be hardware
06:59:12 TylerM: aside from sponsorship... we can still move/vote on the idea of the expenditure. then follow up with an email confirmation vote.
06:59:32 TylerM: hobu: good thinking, thanks for moving this along
06:59:54 seven: Arnulf motions to authorize up to $22k for hardware purchase for SAC to migrate off of Peer1 and onto OSL
07:00:01 ajolma: Would a some kind of contract with OSUOSL be good? Or is that in the works already?
07:00:17 hobu: ajolma: in the works, I think
07:00:22 FrankW: I'm -0 on $22
07:00:36 FrankW: unless we get our directed sponsor.
07:00:39 TylerM: they don't really do contracts there.. but we have an agreement in principle already.
07:00:52 TylerM: frankw: have an alternate cost in mind?
07:01:09 FrankW: 2 servers for $15K for now, add more later depending on how things go and resources available.
07:01:20 TylerM: I like that better too
07:01:36 seven: If that makes you a good +1 it is good for me. hobu, what do you think?
07:01:37 TylerM: I think budget can handle that better as well : )
07:02:14 jmckenna: is frank's proposal without OSL support?
07:02:25 jmckenna: meaning we admin the machines?
07:02:39 FrankW: That does not cost in OSL support.
07:02:46 FrankW: It is just for the up front hardware.
07:02:52 jmckenna: ok
07:02:57 FrankW: But the osl costs are downstream and would be handled in the 2010 SAC budget.
07:03:07 TylerM: if we do the migration quick enough the costs would not be an issue, and come out of normal SAC hosting costs
07:03:07 jmckenna: i see, thanks
07:03:09 TylerM: right
07:03:10 : * FrankW is concerned that we are falling into 2010 without a budget...
07:03:15 hobu: I kind of want more greenspace to replace the critical services we're currently running on blades over capacity. Two should get us plenty started though. Migration is going to be tough
07:03:34 hobu: +1 to $15k for at least two boxes
07:03:46 FrankW: +1
07:04:06 seven: Good. As we cannot confirm this as a voice motion, can you please make it an Email motion?
07:04:07 ajolma: +1 to $15, and get our logo to http://osuosl.org/services/hosting/communities
07:04:08 jmckenna: seems reasonable to me +1
07:04:10 sigq: Title: Communities | Open Source Lab ( at osuosl.org )
07:04:30 TylerM: I'll summarised the motions for the mailing list
07:04:36 seven: TylerM: Thanks.
07:04:43 TylerM: ajolma: exactly... and I think they would like us there too : )
07:04:43 FrankW: sounds good.
07:04:49 seven: Phew. Done.
07:04:51 hobu: I will craft an email
07:04:56 seven: Anything else?
07:05:00 darkblue_B: y
07:05:08 darkblue_B: hi all- two things... first, briefly, is that I have discovered that there is a new December 7th call for public comments regarding the US National Broadband map and the disclosure of data to the public.. I have sent an email to the GeoData list, and have heard nothing back yet... My contacts tell me that the Australian National Boradband map is now underway as well..
07:05:22 darkblue_B: the second is that I feel there are yet to be discovered really really good ways for OSGeo to grow organizationally.. I feel there is some "stuckness" in having such talented and accomplished groups, look to sponsorship and the annual meeting as the *sole* means of sustaining the organization, at a time when there are profound and fundemental changes in the area that very much involve OSGeo projects...
07:05:22 darkblue_B: Public Libraries, research institutes, the Luekemia and Lymphoma Society or the Osteoporosis Institute in the US, policy think tanks, public interest law firms.. all have assets and missions and have found a place in the world.. and OSGeo in its formation could well learn from these to find long term viablility..
07:05:38 darkblue_B: .. although I am not prepared to make a more detailed presentation today, I would like to keep these topics alive ...
07:05:41 darkblue_B: thats all :- )
07:05:48 darkblue_B: sorry for the text bomb
07:05:56 darkblue_B: I know everyone wants to go
07:05:58 TylerM: darkblue_B: I hope you can share more of those thoughts via the board list
07:06:10 darkblue_B: I tried to email, but apparently it ididnt go throught
07:06:12 TylerM: .. or course a few of us are always here too for more discussion. : )
07:06:19 FrankW: I agree, I'd like to hear more but email might be the best giving our time.
07:06:20 darkblue_B: yes
07:06:24 darkblue_B: thx
07:06:38 jmckenna: i received your email 20 mins ago
07:06:40 TylerM: some great ideas in there
07:06:48 seven: darkblue_B: Thanks for your input.
07:06:53 : * FrankW has much email to catch up on from overnight.
07:06:58 TylerM: the board meets monthly, we can always get you on the agenda
07:07:09 darkblue_B: I appreciate that, thank you
07:07:09 : * FrankW motions to close meeting.
07:07:14 seven: second
07:07:16 seven: +1
07:07:20 ajolma: +1
07:07:33 TylerM: thanks for coming out!!
07:07:37 seven: Thanks folks, good meeting. We got some stuff done ( and more to do... ).
07:07:42 ravivundavalli: +1
07:07:48 jmckenna: +1 ( would really like to have voice or face-to-face meetings someday )
07:08:02 seven: jmckenna: +7
07:08:04 TylerM: is there general agreement that voice is better ?
07:08:30 seven: I am happy with IRC but in some cases voice might be better.
07:08:32 ajolma: I'm most comfortable with email and f2f
07:08:36 ravivundavalli: +1
07:08:41 FrankW: I personally *prefer* IRC, but good voice would be fine.
07:09:13 ravivundavalli: mean Voice and Email
07:09:31 seven: We should simply have all options. F2F, voice, IRC and Email. For discussion and motions.
07:09:46 TylerM: switching between them is the biggest pain i find
07:10:03 jmckenna: seven: imagine your OGC meetings in IRC
07:10:03 TylerM: so one or the other is preferred from my end. irc is best for the secretary taking notes though : )
07:10:18 jmckenna: i've never been, but i imagine - pointless
07:10:38 jmckenna: i imagine f2f OGC meetings are key
07:10:45 : * seven is off for SF, Mountain View OGC TC meeting. If she never comes back you know where you have to look for her..
07:11:06 seven: But as it is at a Google place it might at least be well connected.
07:11:33 aghisla: seven: say thanks to Google Open Source Team for me : )
07:11:53 seven: Ah, forgot: Next meeting is at 2010-01-07
07:12:00 jmckenna: i think there is a kind of responsibility and respect that comes with f2f. IRC feels to me like we're all in our basements
07:12:30 : * seven is in the basement of her Borg cube...
07:12:53 seven: See you later.
07:13:43 : * FrankW is in a basement!
07:14:16 TylerM: minutes posted
07:15:13 TylerM: since we didn't do voice, i was able to be in the livingroom without waking anyone else : ) but otherwise ... basement too hehe
07:15:50 jmckenna: i'm shooting high here...i know we're all there literally...
07:16:48 TylerM: lol - it sure would be nice to do f2f
07:16:52 FrankW: I'm actually feeling quite constrained by the 1 hour meeting format. One advantage of f2f ( as opposed to voice 2 voice ) is that we also typically commit a day.
07:17:06 FrankW: I'd like to see us prepared to spend up to 2hours on board meetings when needed.
07:17:43 jmckenna: we had a one hour meeting in sydney to review contract face-to-face and it was unbelievable how much got done
07:19:19 TylerM: yeah putting aside 2 hours would sure make a difference, as would a f2f for 2+ hours
07:19:47 jmckenna: what about a f2f once every 6 months to start?
07:20:34 jmckenna: i think f2f meetings would make everyone feel responsible for their role to OSGeo.
07:21:18 jmckenna: ( or we can stay in our boxers and attend irc meetings once a month lol )
07:21:33 hobu: f2f is totally not possible for me unless there's financial support from the org to get me there
07:21:46 hobu: and if f2f meetings are a requirement to be on the board, i'm resigning immediately
07:22:20 jmckenna: good feedback, i mean i want to hear why we're not really pursuing this
07:22:39 TylerM: increasing sponsorship would help cover that off i think
07:23:18 hobu: because we're only willing to run the conference at a 20-40k profit ;0
07:23:18 TylerM: and make it a non-issue and an obvious way of improving our governance.
07:23:18 TylerM: imho
07:29:29 TylerM: frankw / hobu - how would http://svn.osgeo.org/osgeo translate into a local file:// url for svn now?
07:29:30 sigq: Title: osgeo - Revision 2744: / ( at svn.osgeo.org )
07:30:53 TylerM: and is there a way of taking my previously checkout http:// files and change it to use the file:// ones?
07:31:26 hobu: svn relocate, I think
07:31:35 jmckenna: ( adding TODO to minutes to review 2010 budget )
07:32:09 TylerM: jmckenna: thanks!
07:32:14 TylerM: doh : )
07:32:26 jmckenna: : ) i think it counts : )
07:32:32 TylerM: hobu: thx.. i figured out the change too.. file:///var/www/svn/repos/osgeo
07:32:54 TylerM: jmckenna: that's what happens when the scribe also participates in the discussion... hehe
07:33:04 TylerM: I had the budget files open and forgot to type : )
07:33:05 jmckenna: i hear that ha
07:33:16 TylerM: thanks for filling in last month!
07:33:39 hobu: TylerM: do you remember what osl's hosting/mo cost was?
07:33:43 jmckenna: ha, well i wrote them down but forgot to file...at least i kept the minutes somewhere ha
07:33:55 TylerM: irc sure helps with that
07:34:09 TylerM: hobu: i'll dig them up.. otherwise guessing like 500-2000 per year
07:34:19 TylerM: still feels like a guess though...
07:34:30 hobu: ok, so 2 mo worth of peer 1. i'll use that in my email
07:38:07 TylerM: i'll get it in a sec : )
07:38:16 TylerM: i'm just afraid i might be way off hehe
07:43:11 TylerM: hobu: ~$2500/yr
07:43:17 TylerM: for 2 colo machines
07:44:13 TylerM: that was a quote from a year ago, i'll follow up to confirm with lance, but that should get you a ballpark at least
08:05:43 jef: did anyone mention that svn.osgeo.org is down yet?
08:07:32 FrankW: it should be up again.
08:07:40 FrankW: but we are having lots of system problems.
08:07:40 jef: yup, I just noticed. thanks
08:07:45 FrankW: whic I'm trying to diagnose.
08:08:02 FrankW: and might relate to too many people doing big svn checkouts at the same time. :- )
08:08:22 jef: FrankW: not me ; )
08:33:36 FrankW: jmckenna: I'm interested in your thoughts on more frequent financial reporting if/when you have time to discuss it.
08:33:44 TylerM: hmm i guess i don't have that 'local' svn url figured out quite yet
08:33:48 TylerM: any tips frank?
08:34:37 FrankW: TylerM: I use urls like: file:///var/www/svn/repos/metacrs/proj/trunk
08:34:53 FrankW: It seems similar to what you were doing above.
08:36:40 TylerM: ok will try again thank you
08:36:58 TylerM: maybe i shouldn't be using the switch command ?
08:37:15 FrankW: I have no comment on the relocate aspect.
08:37:19 TylerM: hobu: I don't see a relocate option - is it a different command.
08:37:22 FrankW: Can you not just checkout a clean copy?
08:37:22 TylerM: ok : )
08:37:42 TylerM: yeah will do that
08:38:43 TylerM: much easier ; )
08:51:14 FrankW: TylerM: Sometimes my news items get lost if I get the date wrong, but I can't seem to find the mapguide release one.
08:51:28 FrankW: Do you know how to search for it?
08:51:30 TylerM: was there one?
08:51:49 TylerM: i was just suggesting it might be worth doing one
08:52:13 FrankW: I thought I had done it, as trevor notes.
08:52:16 FrankW: But I can't find it now.
08:52:28 FrankW: Where is the Search box on www.osgeo.org?
08:52:32 FrankW: Do you need to be logged in to see it?
08:52:44 TylerM: i think we turned it off
08:52:50 TylerM: if you goto /news it should be in there
08:52:59 FrankW: I paged through 15 months or so.
08:53:09 FrankW: I sure wish we had a "see just the titles" view for old news.
08:53:19 TylerM: okay.. i can put one together quickly actually
08:53:22 TylerM: one minute
08:53:46 TylerM: you could also check the news rss feed
08:53:50 FrankW: I see I did send out the announce email: http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/announce/2009-November/000139.html
08:53:51 sigq: Title: [OSGeo-Announce] MapGuide Open Source 2.1 Released ( at lists.osgeo.org )
08:54:25 TylerM: it did seem to ring a bell heh
08:55:12 FrankW: <title>MapGuide Open Source 2.1 Released</title>
08:55:12 FrankW: <link>http://www.osgeo.org/node/976</link>
08:55:12 FrankW: <description/>
08:55:12 FrankW: <pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 23:43:59 -0500</pubDate>
08:55:19 FrankW: it shows up in rss but on on the web site
08:55:50 FrankW: any idea what I did wrong?
08:58:57 TylerM: checking
08:59:05 TylerM: i created /news/list url now
08:59:13 TylerM: for some reason this article appears at bottom there
08:59:43 TylerM: seems there is no date set in the node itself
09:00:14 TylerM: setting it now
09:00:22 TylerM: but i thought you did it once already.. hmm
09:00:39 TylerM: looks like it stuck now.. should be fine
09:02:56 FrankW: thanks
09:05:20 TylerM: np
09:12:06 pramsey: wow, pricey venue
09:28:45 TylerM: I've enlarged the FOSS4G logo on http://osgeo.org - does it fit okay into the box for you IE users?
09:28:50 sigq: Title: OSGeo.org | Your Open Source Compass ( at osgeo.org )
09:28:53 TylerM: and others? : )
10:34:11 FrankW: TylerM: I think 10 years might have been excessive for foss4g2007.org!
10:35:07 : * jmckenna always uses foss4g20xx.org
10:35:51 FrankW: If we are going to pay for DNS entries for 15 years worth of FOSS4G it is going to be several hundred dollers per year.
10:35:57 : * jmckenna and cringes at the thought of someone going to foss4g.org lol
10:36:34 FrankW: I think we need to make foss4g.org a good reference point.
10:37:05 TylerM: Seemed SAC consensus was to keep those hosts running, sorry if I misunderstood, it wasn't very expensive at least :/
10:37:08 TylerM: :S
10:37:09 jmckenna: it should be our showcase url for sure!
10:38:36 FrankW: TylerM: I just think another 5 years would have been plenty.
10:38:46 FrankW: There needs to be some sort of end date for these things.
10:38:49 FrankW: imho
10:38:57 FrankW: After which folks can still find the material at 2007.foss4g.org.
10:39:20 TylerM: agreed.. i just zipped through it too hastily
10:39:46 TylerM: it would be good to set a standard up via SAC
10:40:08 TylerM: so the subjective nature is removed
10:41:04 FrankW: perhaps
10:41:31 FrankW: I have been renewing project domains for five years under the assumption we want them for quite a long time, and it makes the per year cost lower.
10:45:31 jmckenna: shouldn't budget discussions occur on board-private and not board-public??
10:46:13 jmckenna: getting confusing
10:46:14 FrankW: why?
10:46:38 FrankW: as I understand it the only thing that might be private is the exact cost of the venue, and perhaps the remuneration for groupo pacifico
10:46:52 FrankW: In fact, I don't recall any requirement to keep the GP contract details private.
10:47:02 FrankW: though I might have missed it.
10:47:35 FrankW: Generally speaking we should avoid having discussions on -private unless there is a serious reason to keep them confidential.
10:47:40 jmckenna: just that other budget discussions were private. ok my mistake
10:48:11 FrankW: Well, it is something we all need to keep an eye on, and I try to discourage unnecceary use of -private.
10:48:16 jmckenna: i agree but i was just now digging always for private budgets..my mistake
10:50:02 jmckenna: and i love my hard work over the years to bug past conference LOCs for reports and include in the 2010 RFP...in fact i'd like to see this report template enahanced ( i think danmo recently asked for breakdown of attendees by country )...anyway just thinking out loud
10:50:26 FrankW: yes, this information is very valuable.
10:51:28 jmckenna: and in reading this 2010 RFP again i realize i have come chasing to do for the 2008 final and 2009 final reports...
10:53:06 jmckenna: i know there are wiki pages and archives out there...but the more we can add into this document the better, in my opinion
11:46:42 jmckenna: ( lol so after i bring this up...i send to public and tyler sends to private ) hence my question!
11:46:49 jmckenna: oh well :(
11:46:55 TylerM: heh
11:47:06 TylerM: i've been heads down reviewing budgets for that long : )
11:47:55 jmckenna: my initial thought was to follow the past and put on private, so i asked here...apparently we should be doing in public, so i went public : )
11:48:57 TylerM: jmckenna: re: final reports.. Gavin insisted he submitted one, but all I ever saw was a few paragraph description and 3 or 4 bottom line numbers. Was hoping for a bit more detail :(
11:49:30 jmckenna: TylerM: i looked this morning and only found bottom line numbers also
11:49:47 TylerM: hoping it wasn't just me : ) i asked repeatedly for more but never heard back.
11:50:30 jmckenna: i think the 2011 RFP reports will require 2008/9 numbers so this will be the kick in the behind for them
11:51:12 TylerM: i'm just writing gavin now, want me to ask again about a report/ledger of expenses?
11:51:15 TylerM: i'll cc you
11:51:40 TylerM: i sent him our wire transfer info but did hear whether they sent the funds yet or not
11:51:54 jmckenna: ok i will be doing that for 2011 ( with an empty report template for them to fill out )..but can't hurt to get them moving on it now
11:52:25 TylerM: ah okay..
11:55:35 TylerM: if you see something on a -private list you feel should be open or on a different private list, I'd ask the original sender about his intent. I find that often someone assumes someone else thinks it should be private, but in the end they don't actually care hehe
11:58:02 jmckenna: i didn't know if we wanted minor details mentioned ( tyler you did, which was great ). i noticed the grupo pacifico rate per registrant ( not going to mention here ) is different in the contract ( v7 ), original budget and today's budget ( 3 different values )
11:58:37 TylerM: yikes.. hehe boiling down to a single spreadsheet sounds imperative then? : )
11:58:41 jmckenna: but maybe i am misunderstanding something....
12:00:43 jmckenna: i will ask on the list so someone can explain to me why, ha
12:01:37 TylerM: i see i have a few mail to catch up on.. egads..
12:01:42 TylerM: mised pauls and yours : )
12:02:04 jmckenna: yikes we're all working on osgeo at once...: ) for once ha
12:07:20 TylerM: yeah feel the collision ; )
12:07:47 jmckenna: enjoy the company while you can ha
12:23:15 : * TylerM goes to see how "board@osgeo" seems to get through to "board@LISTS.osgeo.org"
12:23:16 TylerM: : )
12:24:10 TylerM: Anyone know? I can seem to tell.
12:24:38 crschmidt: most likely, board is set up as an alias that points to mailman
12:24:40 TylerM: board-priv is only an alias to forward to specific email accounts. board@lists.. is the mailman one.
12:24:54 TylerM: hi chris... it doesn't seem to be defined in /etc/aliases at least
12:25:05 crschmidt: hm, nope
12:25:08 crschmidt: it doesn't, youer' right
12:25:18 TylerM: wonder what else could intercept that
12:33:21 CIA-27: osgeo: simonh * r2745 /foss4g/2009/website/foss4g09_staticmatic/ ( 36 files in 25 dirs ): changed the None comparison to case insensitive
12:33:24 sigq: osgeofeed: Changeset [2745]: changed the None comparison to case insensitive <http://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/changeset/2745>
12:41:07 seven: Ping FrankW
13:00:25 sigq: osgeofeed: Ticket #512 ( enhancement created ): Enable user preferences with date & time in Trac <http://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/ticket/512>
13:17:31 wildintellect: TylerM, there is a interest from several people to have you visit Davis when you come this way
13:25:03 TylerM: wildintellect: that's great to hear - I will plan on it then
22:59:50 CIA-27: osgeo: simonh * r2746 /foss4g/2009/website/foss4g09_staticmatic/site/ ( 38 files in 25 dirs ): updated video links
22:59:51 sigq: osgeofeed: Changeset [2746]: updated video links <http://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/changeset/2746>
23:04:54 CIA-27: osgeo: vehrka * r2747 /community/presentations/20091204-gvsig-valencia: Create folder for Vth gvSIG conf
23:05:57 sigq: osgeofeed: Changeset [2747]: Create folder for Vth gvSIG conf <http://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/changeset/2747>
23:09:06 CIA-27: osgeo: vehrka * r2748 /community/presentations/20091204-gvsig-valencia/ ( osgeo-es.odp osgeo-es.pdf ): Vth gvsig conf keynote and pdf
23:09:06 sigq: osgeofeed: Changeset [2748]: Vth gvsig conf keynote and pdf <http://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/changeset/2748>