| 00:00:33 | seven: | tbowden: Heyho! Good to see you! Where have you been? |
| 00:01:30 | tbowden: | keeping a very low profile for a while. work/health/personal issues to sort, but all looking much better now thanks. |
| 00:02:00 | tbowden: | It's good to be 'back' so to speak |
| 00:03:01 | tbowden: | seven: I trust the usual suspect are normally floating around in here? |
| 00:04:15 | seven: | Probably yes but I have been neglecting IRC for a while and instead explored Twitter and Co. |
| 05:44:59 | TylerM: | ~yawn... good morning |
| 05:46:04 | crschmidt: | hello |
| 05:46:16 | crschmidt: | when is our meeting? 7 minutes, or an hour from now? |
| 05:46:26 | TylerM: | 7 minutes i hope : ) |
| 05:48:24 | : | * FrankW drops two agenda items at the last minute. |
| 05:50:50 | ravivundavalli: | Ravi Kumar wishes the board a happy 2010 |
| 05:51:24 | TylerM: | happy new year ravi! |
| 05:52:27 | TylerM: | ravivundavalli: how's the weather? : ) |
| 05:53:23 | ravivundavalli: | weather at Chennai is pleasent.. Not cold at all |
| 05:53:24 | TylerM: | it's too early here to have any ; ) |
| 05:53:39 | TylerM: | i think we are -22C : ) |
| 05:53:47 | TylerM: | ( outside : ) ) |
| 05:54:10 | aghisla: | D: |
| 05:54:22 | ravivundavalli: | we are 22 C too ( + ) |
| 05:54:42 | TylerM: | looking around, i see jmckenna, FrankW, ravivundavalli, seven_ |
| 05:54:42 | crschmidt: | i'm halfway inbetween, at 0 |
| 05:54:48 | TylerM: | hobu, jmckenna you around? |
| 05:54:58 | hobu: | yep |
| 05:54:59 | seven_: | One hour until board meeting. |
| 05:55:09 | TylerM: | err say it ain't so |
| 05:55:19 | FrankW: | One hour? I thought I checked the universal time thing and it said now! |
| 05:55:20 | TylerM: | http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?year=2010&month=01&day=07&hour=15&min=0&sec=0 |
| 05:55:21 | sigq: | Title: The Fixed Time World Clock ( at www.timeanddate.com ) |
| 05:55:22 | seven_: | Huh? |
| 05:55:24 | seven_: | Oh. |
| 05:55:29 | jmckenna: | here ( my clock must be 5 minutes behind ) |
| 05:55:32 | crschmidt: | that says 'now' |
| 05:55:32 | FrankW: | Though waiting one hour is ok with me too. |
| 05:55:45 | crschmidt: | for me, at least : ) |
| 05:55:54 | TylerM: | i'd love to sleep longer.. oh good it's no longer 6:something :o |
| 05:56:11 | : | * seven_ is way more out the loop than she thought... |
| 05:56:35 | seven_: | I am on another call, sorry. Can someone pls. lead the meeting? I'll lurk along. |
| 05:56:35 | TylerM: | you have day light savings over there? |
| 05:56:47 | seven_: | No light at all around here. Snowing all the time. |
| 05:57:13 | jmckenna: | : ) |
| 05:57:35 | : | * seven notes that seven_ is exaggerating. Just one inch of wno today. |
| 05:57:37 | FrankW: | I'll chair till seven is fully available. |
| 05:57:46 | seven_: | Thanks FrankW |
| 05:57:54 | FrankW: | First, a role call for those who are actively here? |
| 05:57:57 | : | * FrankW is alive. |
| 05:57:58 | : | * crschmidt here |
| 05:58:02 | : | * hobu here |
| 05:58:08 | ravivundavalli: | Ravi Kumar here |
| 05:58:09 | TylerM: | Board meeting starts ========== |
| 05:58:15 | seven_: | Arnulf ist here. |
| 05:58:15 | seven_: | is |
| 05:58:37 | : | * TylerM is here |
| 05:58:44 | FrankW: | jmckenna, still with us? |
| 05:59:02 | jmckenna: | sorry here ( was reading your board list email ) |
| 05:59:20 | FrankW: | TylerM, I assume you are willing to be secretary today? |
| 05:59:29 | TylerM: | definitely |
| 05:59:48 | FrankW: | ok, next item, approving: http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Board_Meeting_2009-12-03 |
| 05:59:50 | sigq: | Title: Board Meeting 2009-12-03 - OSGeo Wiki ( at wiki.osgeo.org ) |
| 05:59:55 | TylerM: | * Attending Frank, Chris, Howard, Ravi, Arnulf, ,Jeff, Tyler |
| 06:00:02 | FrankW: | I like the "action summary". |
| 06:00:03 | TylerM: | * Tyler acting as scribe |
| 06:00:21 | TylerM: | * Approve past minutes: http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Board_Meeting_2009-12-03 |
| 06:00:23 | sigq: | Title: Board Meeting 2009-12-03 - OSGeo Wiki ( at wiki.osgeo.org ) |
| 06:00:45 | TylerM: | I just wish I had more "action" at my end on these |
| 06:00:51 | : | * seven likes the TODOs too, but saw them too late, not much done yet. :-( |
| 06:01:02 | seven: | OK, so we are all in the same boat. :- ) |
| 06:01:06 | TylerM: | seems like a couple weeks disappeared .. somewhere ; ) |
| 06:01:20 | FrankW: | We can't really expect too much over the holidays. |
| 06:01:27 | seven: | I'll motion to approve the minutes. |
| 06:01:37 | FrankW: | +1 |
| 06:01:40 | seven: | +1 |
| 06:01:41 | crschmidt: | +1 |
| 06:01:43 | jmckenna: | +1 |
| 06:01:44 | ravivundavalli: | +1 |
| 06:01:52 | TylerM: | ** '''MOTION: Arnulf moved to approve the minutes, Frank seconded, all were in favour''' |
| 06:01:52 | FrankW: | with that done, perhaps we could quitely review the action items. |
| 06:02:04 | FrankW: | TODO: Frank to provide revised wording for board/charter election changes. |
| 06:02:13 | FrankW: | I did this, though only a few minutes ago - agenda item added for it. |
| 06:02:16 | TylerM: | * Review past action items |
| 06:02:17 | FrankW: | TODO: Tyler to look at how we can vote virtually via IRC instead of requiring voice. |
| 06:02:20 | FrankW: | any progress? |
| 06:02:22 | TylerM: | nada |
| 06:02:26 | TylerM: | nope |
| 06:02:29 | FrankW: | TODO: Jeff, Arnulf, Tyler to review FOSS4G 2010 budget changes and report on board-private |
| 06:02:44 | TylerM: | I think we gave all our thoughts |
| 06:02:45 | FrankW: | I think this was done,but apparently there is some outstanding issues before it is brought to us for final approval. |
| 06:02:55 | TylerM: | I think so |
| 06:03:05 | FrankW: | TODO: Ari to follow up with EuroGI about associated organisation options. |
| 06:03:07 | jmckenna: | i believe they are promising a final budget by the end of the moth |
| 06:03:09 | seven: | They have not finalized the budegt yet at the LoC. |
| 06:03:32 | seven: | I asked Lorenzo to make sure it is ready one week before the next board meeting so we have tim eto review. |
| 06:03:34 | FrankW: | ok - not there is room for them to fine tune later as long as it does not change materially. |
| 06:03:55 | seven: | OK. I will let Lorenzo know. Will help relax him. :- ) |
| 06:04:08 | TylerM: | yeah, we know it will never be 'final' : ) |
| 06:04:17 | TylerM: | or at least not static : ) |
| 06:04:40 | jmckenna: | also, i want to document that we are having communication issues with the 2010 LOC...so arnulf, tyler and myself are trying to work through this. ( contact me offline for details ) for 2011 we may have to be more strict ( i.e. a signed contract between osgeo and LOC ) to make sure we don't hit these issues again. contact me for more details. |
| 06:04:41 | FrankW: | Re: Ari and EuroGI I believe the ball is still in his court, right? |
| 06:04:51 | seven: | Yes. |
| 06:05:09 | FrankW: | note that in general a LOC is not a legal entity ( it is us ) so a contract is not necessarily appropriate. |
| 06:05:15 | TylerM: | as jmckenna notes, hopefully we're over that hump |
| 06:05:29 | jmckenna: | well, we're going to have to get formal |
| 06:05:32 | FrankW: | It might be good to have a more formal relationship though. |
| 06:05:51 | seven: | Yes. Although the initial issues seem to have been also a language issues. |
| 06:06:00 | seven: | We will have more of this with this LoC. |
| 06:06:10 | FrankW: | ok TODO: Arnulf to follow up on idea of presenting comments on topics like FFI is for EU interoperability. |
| 06:06:17 | seven: | it is the first time ever that we have a FOSS4G not in an English native spaeking region. |
| 06:06:19 | jmckenna: | i am not sure it is just language. anyway sorry for the off-topic |
| 06:06:47 | seven: | I have been contacting people but nothing solid yet. |
| 06:06:53 | FrankW: | ok |
| 06:06:55 | seven: | Will report at the next meeting. |
| 06:07:06 | FrankW: | alright, that covers our review of minute todo items. |
| 06:07:23 | seven: | TylerM: Keep it on the TODO list ( with capitals... :- ) |
| 06:07:24 | FrankW: | next agenda item is foss4g budget status, which seems to have been addressed above. |
| 06:07:33 | FrankW: | unless there is anything to add? |
| 06:07:35 | TylerM: | yup |
| 06:07:45 | jmckenna: | nothing to add |
| 06:08:34 | FrankW: | next agenda item is the change to our voting procedures. |
| 06:08:50 | FrankW: | The revision is: http://wiki.osgeo.org/index.php?title=Proposed_Board_Election_Procedure&diff=44125&oldid=44122 |
| 06:08:52 | sigq: | Title: Proposed Board Election Procedure - OSGeo Wiki ( at wiki.osgeo.org ) |
| 06:08:54 | TylerM: | * Proposed Board Election Procedure |
| 06:09:06 | : | * seven sees that this toipic has been added just very recently. No time to go through it yet. |
| 06:09:21 | FrankW: | the updated version is: http://wiki.osgeo.org/index.php?title=Proposed_Board_Election_Procedure |
| 06:09:23 | sigq: | Title: Proposed Board Election Procedure - OSGeo Wiki ( at wiki.osgeo.org ) |
| 06:09:47 | FrankW: | I took the liberty of mentioning that the nomination list would also appear in the wiki. |
| 06:09:49 | TylerM: | note only three small changes: http://wiki.osgeo.org/index.php?title=Proposed_Board_Election_Procedure&diff=44125&oldid=44122 |
| 06:09:51 | sigq: | Title: Proposed Board Election Procedure - OSGeo Wiki ( at wiki.osgeo.org ) |
| 06:10:00 | : | * seven remembers now. Looks good to her. |
| 06:10:22 | FrankW: | Were we also wanting to make a simlar change to charter member elections? |
| 06:10:22 | TylerM: | main item was the line 17 one i think |
| 06:10:30 | jmckenna: | yes line 17 is important |
| 06:10:40 | TylerM: | FrankW: ah yes, good catch |
| 06:11:24 | : | * FrankW seeks feedback on whether we want the change for charter elections as well... |
| 06:11:25 | : | * TylerM goes looking for that page |
| 06:11:49 | FrankW: | I don't think we need to do the editing now. If we are going to make the motion by email, I can prepare the changes in advance of doing that. |
| 06:12:14 | : | * TylerM does want that.. basically not allowing voters to choose one candidate more than once |
| 06:12:28 | : | * TylerM taps the microphone ;- ) |
| 06:12:31 | FrankW: | anyone else have thoughts? |
| 06:12:36 | seven: | Fine by me. |
| 06:12:57 | FrankW: | ok, I'll prepare that change as well and forward both changes as a motion to the list. |
| 06:12:58 | jmckenna: | i support line 17 changes |
| 06:12:58 | crschmidt: | I'm in agreement. |
| 06:13:33 | FrankW: | Moving on to OSGeo 2010 budget. |
| 06:13:55 | FrankW: | We have, unfortunately, stumbled into the new year without a budget and I think we need to rectify this. |
| 06:14:08 | FrankW: | but before a detailed budget can be prepared I think we need to discuss direction. |
| 06:14:21 | FrankW: | I sent an email a couple minutes before the meeting with three main options. |
| 06:14:34 | FrankW: | 1 ) run a substantial deficit. |
| 06:14:39 | FrankW: | 2 ) raise a good deal more money |
| 06:14:44 | FrankW: | 3 ) move to bring our expenses into line with our income |
| 06:14:58 | : | * seven opts for 2 ) |
| 06:15:27 | FrankW: | As I mentioned, we have the capacity to run a deficit for one more year if so desired though we significantly erode our financial position. |
| 06:15:33 | TylerM: | a side note, once 2009 financial summary is complete, you'll have an idea of how it lined up with the last budget |
| 06:15:56 | seven: | But I have been highly unsusscessful in raising awareness / help form the board. :-( |
| 06:15:56 | : | * crschmidt thinks that 2 ) is wishful thinking |
| 06:15:57 | TylerM: | i hope to have that for you this week |
| 06:16:05 | crschmidt: | we already said we'd do 2 this year, and we didn't, I think. |
| 06:16:13 | FrankW: | My concern with ( 2 ) is that we did that last year with rather limited success. |
| 06:16:16 | crschmidt: | Do we have some reason to think that we would be more successful this year? |
| 06:16:22 | FrankW: | right, what crschmidt said. |
| 06:16:34 | seven: | crschmidt: I do not think so if we would get our respective asses in motion and become active. |
| 06:16:53 | seven: | It just needs to get done. |
| 06:16:53 | TylerM: | half of you are still 'new'.. it always takes some time to 'find your feet' |
| 06:17:17 | jmckenna: | how did we plan for 2 ) last year? is this documented somewhere, these steps for raising more money? how did we plan to do that? |
| 06:17:36 | seven: | We never planned and never did anything much. |
| 06:17:41 | TylerM: | i think the plan went only so far as adding more items to the budget as income |
| 06:18:03 | FrankW: | to be fair we had a number of discussions on possible sponsors and stuff at the board level. |
| 06:18:11 | TylerM: | and we did get one more new $10k sponsor, plus I'm not sure where our top sponsor will land this year.. we might be surprised |
| 06:18:15 | FrankW: | But there was relatively little action and little success. |
| 06:18:20 | seven: | I have pointed out what we need to do but never consolidated the process and did not put much energy to it. |
| 06:18:20 | seven: | I suggest to leverage Tyler more. I volunteer to spend more time on it. |
| 06:18:31 | TylerM: | and foss4g raised a lot more than anticipated |
| 06:18:47 | seven: | FrankW: Exactly. Which is not a big wonder considering that we did not really do anything. |
| 06:19:16 | seven: | Let me put together a plan and then consider how to move on. |
| 06:19:26 | TylerM: | to also be fair, several of us were doing talks all over the place.. I know my UK trips helped leverage the new sponsor through face-to-face talks |
| 06:19:45 | TylerM: | let's chat about it seven anytime |
| 06:19:48 | seven: | If we can commit to it as a board and all do some bits then I am positive that we can do much better. |
| 06:19:50 | jmckenna: | i think those trips you make tyler are very important. |
| 06:19:56 | FrankW: | I would say that fundraising efforts continued, but that there was not really a very organized effort. |
| 06:20:05 | hobu: | so are we willing to openly rely on foss4g as the major fund raising center? Because we're relying on it now, just not openly. |
| 06:20:14 | seven: | Yes. |
| 06:20:23 | FrankW: | seven: are you suggesting that we not do 2010 budgeting till you come back with a fundraising plan? |
| 06:20:31 | TylerM: | jmckenna: and yours and arnulf and others too |
| 06:20:40 | jmckenna: | true, true |
| 06:20:52 | seven: | FrankW: If you feel better that way, yes. |
| 06:21:15 | seven: | It will not be done with just putting up a plan but we alos need to commit. I want this to be clear. |
| 06:21:18 | TylerM: | I feel until the final costs versus 2009 budget are done, we don't have the full picture |
| 06:21:18 | FrankW: | Well, to be honest, I feel like we are already late for 2010 budgeting and I'm not keen on putting it out too far. |
| 06:21:27 | seven: | If we do not commit then we will have to cut back. |
| 06:21:48 | FrankW: | I will concede that I am dragging my heels on a major fundraising effort. I don't seem to have the fire for it these days. |
| 06:21:50 | TylerM: | Can we just say to carry on with 2009 budget and anticipate some changes over the next month? |
| 06:22:11 | seven: | FrankW: Yes. But we can imporve on that. |
| 06:22:21 | TylerM: | The reason I'm pushing on the budget comparison for 2009 is that I know we under-spent in several areas |
| 06:22:44 | TylerM: | and that would help to give us a more reasonable feel of our actual costs. |
| 06:22:47 | FrankW: | I did do a tentative budget analysis several months ago and I don't think there have been any dramatic changes from that analysis. |
| 06:23:04 | TylerM: | probably right |
| 06:23:08 | FrankW: | I don't think we can wait for 2009 financials to be finalized before budgetting for 2010. |
| 06:23:43 | seven: | FrankW: +1 We should get the budget approved at the next meeting. |
| 06:24:03 | TylerM: | not saying to wait, but can't expect others to have an opinion on budget without seeing how good/bad our targets really were |
| 06:24:16 | seven: | This means that we have three more weeks in which I will try to propose a solid plan. |
| 06:24:35 | FrankW: | We have preliminary information on our actuals vs our budget already. |
| 06:24:41 | seven: | If that is not acceptable to the board we will have to look into the other options. |
| 06:24:46 | FrankW: | It is better than we had for budgetting in previous years. |
| 06:25:08 | : | * seven is done. |
| 06:25:21 | FrankW: | What I can do is prepare a budget based on business as usual, that will indicate the amount of extra funds we will need to break even. |
| 06:25:33 | FrankW: | That should give focus to our fundraising. |
| 06:25:39 | FrankW: | ( as we did last year ) |
| 06:25:46 | seven: | Good. |
| 06:25:54 | TylerM: | sounds good |
| 06:26:04 | jmckenna: | ok |
| 06:26:25 | TylerM: | should we follow up with finance committee on this? |
| 06:26:36 | : | * seven is interested to hear opinions form the other board members. Is this proposal OK? |
| 06:26:56 | FrankW: | TylerM: I would intend to circulate the proposed budget for review in the finance committee before bringing it to the board at the next meeting. |
| 06:27:04 | TylerM: | ok |
| 06:27:18 | seven: | It should be solid a week before the next meeting. |
| 06:27:32 | FrankW: | seven: agreed |
| 06:27:39 | TylerM: | ( Geoff Zeiss joins - hi there ) |
| 06:27:41 | : | * crschmidt guesses that this is okay, but still is concerned that depending on fundraising efforts is depending on false hope. |
| 06:27:46 | FrankW: | welcome gzeiss! |
| 06:27:59 | hobu: | I would be comfortable tabling any "optional" spending that isn't salary, benefits, and travel until we have a real budget |
| 06:28:02 | gzeiss: | Sorry for being late. |
| 06:28:27 | FrankW: | gzeiss: we have zoomed through the agenda items and are now discussion budget directions for 2010. |
| 06:28:54 | jmckenna: | we almost need an hour set aside for a fundraising discussion |
| 06:28:57 | seven: | gzeiss: http://logs.qgis.org/osgeo/%23osgeo.2010-01-07.log |
| 06:28:58 | sigq: | Title: IRC Log - #OSGEO ( at logs.qgis.org ) |
| 06:29:07 | TylerM: | agenda here: http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Board_Meeting_2010-01-07 |
| 06:29:08 | sigq: | Title: Board Meeting 2010-01-07 - OSGeo Wiki ( at wiki.osgeo.org ) |
| 06:29:50 | FrankW: | In the past we had a distinct fundraising committee, but it lacked energy and so fundraising was returned to the board. So yes, I think fundraising needs to be a substnatial part of board discussions and it might make sense to have a dedicated meeting. |
| 06:30:22 | FrankW: | hobu: when you suggested we table optional spending, would that include the approved hardware purchase? |
| 06:30:33 | hobu: | FrankW: yep |
| 06:30:37 | FrankW: | There aren't generally that many optional expenses. |
| 06:30:44 | : | * seven grumbles... |
| 06:30:50 | FrankW: | I personally think that the hardware purchase is important and time critical. |
| 06:30:56 | FrankW: | And I am not inclined to defer it. |
| 06:30:59 | seven: | The servers are high up on my priority. |
| 06:31:06 | : | * TylerM agrees |
| 06:31:24 | crschmidt: | Are they higher up than Tyler's salary? |
| 06:31:46 | FrankW: | we are in no immediate crisis with regard to paying the salary. |
| 06:32:05 | FrankW: | But ultimately I do not want OSGeo to fundraise soley to pay the ED salary. |
| 06:32:12 | FrankW: | That is part of what demotivates me. |
| 06:32:29 | FrankW: | It seems like we are in a corner where that is all we can afford and many worthwhile initiatives are stillborn. |
| 06:32:49 | TylerM: | I haven't seen many other initiatives proposed though |
| 06:33:04 | : | * crschmidt shrugs. |
| 06:33:04 | TylerM: | I think that certainly helps give people incentive to fundraise |
| 06:33:11 | seven: | Which is why right from the start ( bakc whne Gary was in the lead ) I proposed to keep budgets low. |
| 06:33:17 | seven: | Seems to have paid off. |
| 06:33:30 | seven: | But now it is time to put some energy into getting funding. |
| 06:33:31 | seven: | So lets do it. |
| 06:33:50 | seven: | If we would have followed the big design we'd be way dead now. |
| 06:34:01 | TylerM: | last year we had an increased marketing budget and talked about systems stuff, those were about it... |
| 06:34:15 | seven: | So I am positive that this is not whishful thinking but solid growing. |
| 06:34:57 | TylerM: | foss4g 09 has put us in a pretty good situation, imo. like hobu said earlier, we are depending on foss4g already, let's vocalise it? |
| 06:35:05 | TylerM: | seven: I agree with you |
| 06:35:08 | FrankW: | Ok, I have an action item which is to prepare a budget based roughly on business as usual which should help identify our fundraising needs. |
| 06:35:30 | seven: | I have an action item to put together a solid fundraising plan. |
| 06:35:33 | FrankW: | next agenda item is "update from tyler". |
| 06:35:47 | TylerM: | Would you like the various committees to speak up about their hopes for budgets? |
| 06:35:50 | FrankW: | http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/board/2010-January/003195.html |
| 06:35:51 | sigq: | Title: [Board] Update and plans ( at lists.osgeo.org ) |
| 06:36:05 | hobu: | it's all just talk until we see our cash position and last year's balance sheet. Then we can make a budget, but I think it should be based on cash we have, not cash we hope for, and if hoped-for cash materializes, we'll adjust. not the other way. |
| 06:36:33 | FrankW: | TylerM: I wasn't contemplating anything too ambitious with regard to budgets so I wasn't expecting to ask for wish lists, no. |
| 06:36:39 | FrankW: | But I'm open to input. |
| 06:36:55 | TylerM: | fair enough.. just thinking marketing and systems again.. but we can always come back to it |
| 06:37:49 | TylerM: | hobu: current balance sheet for 2009 shows a deficit but that includes seed money for foss4g 09 and doesn't show the profit either - which will bring us back into a fairly good positive showing. |
| 06:37:53 | TylerM: | okay.. nothing really more from me |
| 06:37:53 | FrankW: | hobu: we have a tentative analysis of cash position and last years budget actuals vs. budgetted. |
| 06:38:19 | TylerM: | I sent out my update email on monday - any feedback, questions, concerns? |
| 06:38:35 | TylerM: | It's basically financial management seasons for me. Hopefully for a few days more only. |
| 06:39:06 | TylerM: | I wrote so clearly no one is confused...great :- ) hehe |
| 06:39:21 | seven: | Thanks for the update. |
| 06:39:35 | jmckenna: | yes thanks...I appreciate the update |
| 06:39:36 | TylerM: | my pleasure. |
| 06:39:43 | FrankW: | I will say that I don't think we should be deviating from our 501c3 plan without a strong reason. |
| 06:39:49 | TylerM: | anyone have any speaking opportunitites they think i should aim for? |
| 06:40:07 | TylerM: | FrankW: yeah, not changing the current process.. but I'm going to enquire about it. |
| 06:40:11 | crschmidt: | One thing that I've been asked to bring up is the status of our 501c3 approval. |
| 06:40:26 | crschmidt: | Has there been a recent update on this? |
| 06:40:36 | crschmidt: | ah |
| 06:40:36 | TylerM: | I have to phone to find out again.. no update from them since nov/dec |
| 06:40:36 | crschmidt: | sorry |
| 06:40:38 | crschmidt: | it's in that email there |
| 06:40:50 | TylerM: | back then they said 'a couple weeks' :[ |
| 06:40:53 | crschmidt: | Okay. |
| 06:41:35 | FrankW: | if the update from tyler is done, I'll turn the table over to seven to address his ideas on updates from directors and committees. |
| 06:41:42 | TylerM: | that's just an fyi in there, saying that 501c3 are "supposed to" depend on public donations.. not corporate ones like we are. |
| 06:41:51 | TylerM: | .. or so I am told. |
| 06:41:58 | gzeiss: | I will send everyone an article from INPUT that suggests that open source and geospatial will be one of five key technologies for the US Fed Govt, so in answer to Tyler's guestion I would suggest identifying some key govt conferences and events. |
| 06:42:19 | TylerM: | ok gzeiss - that's good input thanks |
| 06:42:29 | seven: | gzeiss: This is also highly relevant for our funding plans! |
| 06:42:33 | TylerM: | if any in particular come to mind, don't hesitate to let me know |
| 06:43:10 | gzeiss: | http://news.idg.no/cw/art.cfm?id=6F64F930-1A64-67EA-E461E2E958B82E66 |
| 06:43:12 | sigq: | Title: Five technologies to see huge growth in US gov't, group says ( - Software - Applications ) ( at news.idg.no ) |
| 06:43:28 | TylerM: | thx |
| 06:44:06 | TylerM: | FrankW: over to Arnulf... re: dirctors and committee reports |
| 06:44:08 | jmckenna: | excellent article |
| 06:44:42 | TylerM: | whew and it didn't mention twitter for once ; ) lol |
| 06:44:48 | : | * seven is still busy. |
| 06:44:56 | seven: | Trying to summarize: |
| 06:45:15 | gzeiss: | outside of geospatial and open source the others are more buzz phrases |
| 06:45:31 | jmckenna: | true |
| 06:45:45 | seven: | To get us more involved I would like all of us in turn spend some time thinking what our goals for OSGeo are. |
| 06:46:11 | seven: | I had some interesting chats with core folks and there is a tendency to say: |
| 06:46:28 | seven: | The OSGeo idea is cool, but I would never ever support it publicly but rather criticize it. |
| 06:46:40 | seven: | Jut to make sure that "we" do not go in the wrong direction. |
| 06:47:22 | seven: | Does this make any sense to you? |
| 06:47:33 | FrankW: | I'm not quite getting it. |
| 06:47:34 | gzeiss: | You lost me with "never support it publically" |
| 06:47:43 | seven: | I am talking about highly respectable folks like Josh Livni and Sean Gillies. |
| 06:48:00 | seven: | They are "in" OSGeo but still see themselves as not being "in". |
| 06:48:02 | TylerM: | ah, not "core" board or in committees then? |
| 06:48:11 | FrankW: | I understand that Sean likes to see himself as gadfly. |
| 06:48:14 | seven: | I have a hard time explaining this. :- ) |
| 06:48:28 | : | * crschmidt wonders how josh livni is 'in' osgeo' |
| 06:48:31 | jmckenna: | those 2 individuals can be 'in' if they so choose |
| 06:48:34 | seven: | Yes, along that line. |
| 06:48:39 | TylerM: | seven: are you then wondering if similar attitude is at work in board level? |
| 06:48:47 | seven: | Yes. |
| 06:49:04 | seven: | I would like to see some positive comments and actions. |
| 06:49:15 | FrankW: | I can safely say that I feel 'in' even if I try to be selective about where I put my energy. |
| 06:49:21 | seven: | Just get some positive mindset. |
| 06:49:51 | seven: | As I said, this is somewhat delicate. |
| 06:50:11 | seven: | I do not want ot step on folk's toes. |
| 06:50:22 | seven: | But if we want to grow OSGeo - and it is about time we did - then we will have to be more active. |
| 06:50:32 | jmckenna: | being 'in' takes a lot of time and energy...it's much easier to criticise ( i learnt this with the benchmarking exercise ) |
| 06:50:40 | seven: | Hehe. |
| 06:51:01 | seven: | I really believe that we have a great board. No questions. |
| 06:51:05 | TylerM: | If I hear you correctly... OSGeo will live or die by the board's position, activity and enthusiasm... do you want it to live or die? Is that your question? |
| 06:51:19 | seven: | But maybe the attitude could be a bit more constructive sometimes. |
| 06:51:23 | jmckenna: | i'm not clear either on what the point is |
| 06:51:30 | TylerM: | or .. alternately.. 'business as usual' : ) |
| 06:51:33 | : | * crschmidt is happy for OSGeo to live small, rather than 'grow' by leaps and bounds. |
| 06:51:35 | jmckenna: | board attitude? |
| 06:51:46 | seven: | To achieve this it might be a helpfiul experience to actually propose some activity. |
| 06:51:54 | seven: | Commitment. |
| 06:52:07 | jmckenna: | oh board commitment |
| 06:52:11 | seven: | crschmidt: Exactly my take on it. |
| 06:52:15 | seven: | But currently we are sort of discussing whether we should shrink. |
| 06:52:19 | crschmidt: | I think that the most important thing to do is to complete the charitable donation status in some way, update our web presence to be more encouraging, and allow committes to do the work that they want to do. |
| 06:52:39 | seven: | crschmidt: OK, So that is your plan for 2010. Great! |
| 06:52:48 | seven: | This is kind of what I wanted to hear. |
| 06:52:48 | : | * FrankW buys the need for positive energy. I feel I already commit a lot. I also feel we need to be able to self-critize ourself ( as OSGeo ) to keep things on track and real sometimes. |
| 06:52:56 | : | * seven is happy and done with this point. |
| 06:52:58 | seven: | :- ) |
| 06:52:59 | hobu: | one of my concerns is OSGeo is somewhat of a "hopes and dreams" vehicle for a lot of things. I think we take on too much. |
| 06:53:07 | ravivundavalli: | I see this conversation quite cryptic. Pl care to email in detail |
| 06:53:33 | jmckenna: | for me it's about promoting Open Source Geospatial..and i see the best way for this is through FOSS4G hosted in different countries around the world ( not just NA ) |
| 06:53:35 | seven: | ravivundavalli: Sorry about that. I will try to summarize this in an email. |
| 06:53:44 | FrankW: | ravivundavalli: it's cryptic because it's delicate. :- ) |
| 06:54:11 | seven: | and feel free to ping me offline if I am completely off track. |
| 06:54:15 | : | * crschmidt doens't think osgeo needs to promote open source geospatial; just to provide tools if other people want to. |
| 06:54:23 | seven: | On the other hand we must prevent us from burning out. |
| 06:54:31 | seven: | I had some times when I felt like that. |
| 06:54:33 | jmckenna: | i guess each board member has different goals |
| 06:54:37 | seven: | SO the middle way is the one to go. |
| 06:54:47 | seven: | Yes, and that is good. |
| 06:54:51 | TylerM: | i have a mindmap showing areas I hope to achieve for 2010.. will pull it together to share |
| 06:54:52 | jmckenna: | exactly |
| 06:54:57 | FrankW: | crschmidt: I will note that promoting open source geospatial is quite central to our initial mission. |
| 06:55:01 | seven: | FIne. |
| 06:55:05 | : | * seven is done. |
| 06:55:12 | seven: | We ran out of time. |
| 06:55:26 | seven: | I will write an email to the board with my goals for 2010- |
| 06:55:34 | gzeiss: | Are we planning a find raising meeting ? |
| 06:55:38 | seven: | mostly acquiring sponsors I guess... |
| 06:55:57 | gzeiss: | Are we planning a fund raising meeting ? |
| 06:56:11 | seven: | gzeiss: implictly yes. But after our experience with the las committe ... well, I am somewhat discouraged. |
| 06:56:13 | jmckenna: | I think it is needed. |
| 06:56:16 | seven: | But maybe we shoudl just go for it again. |
| 06:56:28 | TylerM: | yeah just a board meeting with a single topic maybe |
| 06:56:47 | TylerM: | next week? |
| 06:56:53 | gzeiss: | Fine with me |
| 06:57:05 | FrankW: | I am open to such a meeting. |
| 06:57:07 | seven: | Yes, I can join. |
| 06:57:12 | TylerM: | at minimum I can make it with a couple of you |
| 06:57:15 | TylerM: | cool |
| 06:57:22 | seven: | Shall we say one hour later? |
| 06:57:23 | jmckenna: | +1 |
| 06:57:29 | gzeiss: | So can I |
| 06:57:34 | TylerM: | yes please 1 hour later |
| 06:57:42 | TylerM: | since i will have marketing meeting 8 hours earlier |
| 06:57:46 | TylerM: | and will try to sleep a bit : ) |
| 06:57:58 | seven: | TylerM: Can you pls. send an email to the board list? |
| 06:58:01 | TylerM: | will do |
| 06:58:35 | TylerM: | this time... for those who want it in their calendar... http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?year=2010&month=01&day=14&hour=16&min=0&sec=0 |
| 06:58:36 | sigq: | Title: The Fixed Time World Clock ( at www.timeanddate.com ) |
| 06:58:37 | seven: | We might want to let Discuss know too. Maybe someone with experience and interest is lurking there and only waiting for this. ;- ) |
| 06:58:55 | TylerM: | Is IRC okay, or want to do voice? |
| 06:59:11 | gzeiss: | I would recommend voice |
| 06:59:32 | seven: | I am sort of still waiting whether we get a new voice option. Any progress? |
| 06:59:48 | seven: | Is this still on anybody's agenda? |
| 06:59:49 | TylerM: | crschmidt has one available |
| 06:59:56 | crschmidt: | with a US number |
| 07:00:02 | crschmidt: | can be called into with skype |
| 07:00:11 | seven: | OK for me. |
| 07:00:15 | gzeiss: | great |
| 07:00:16 | TylerM: | perhaps if anyone needs some skype credits to call into it, they could let me know and I could get some for them. |
| 07:00:32 | jmckenna: | i'll take 'em : ) |
| 07:00:41 | crschmidt: | Okay, once we set the meeting up, I can set up a phone meeting and we can call into it. |
| 07:01:03 | seven: | If you have another option than to Skype I would apprecaite greatly. |
| 07:01:03 | crschmidt: | I'll tag the email to remind myuself to do it ; ) |
| 07:01:16 | seven: | We discontinued Skype because it sucked too bad. |
| 07:01:17 | TylerM: | great.. see time/date above |
| 07:01:21 | crschmidt: | yep. |
| 07:01:29 | crschmidt: | Okay. Is that it for this meeting? |
| 07:01:41 | : | * seven hands back over to FrankW |
| 07:01:43 | TylerM: | seven: this is a real voice line.. you just need something less sucky at your end : ) |
| 07:01:49 | jmckenna: | did we set a next meeting time? |
| 07:01:56 | seven: | Feb 4th. |
| 07:02:00 | jmckenna: | i mean regular meeting? oh ok |
| 07:02:01 | TylerM: | http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?year=2010&month=04&day=04&hour=15&min=0&sec=0 |
| 07:02:02 | sigq: | Title: The Fixed Time World Clock ( at www.timeanddate.com ) |
| 07:02:07 | TylerM: | is an hour later okay? : ) |
| 07:02:11 | seven: | Fine ? |
| 07:02:23 | seven: | Hour later is fine by me. |
| 07:02:27 | jmckenna: | ( can eat lunch during..ok ) |
| 07:02:39 | seven: | Thanks for bearing with me. |
| 07:02:50 | TylerM: | it's not so tough : ) |
| 07:02:57 | jmckenna: | : ) |
| 07:03:22 | jmckenna: | tbowden: we missed you at FOSS4G2009 ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! |
| 07:03:28 | TylerM: | Meeting close ==================== |
| 07:03:28 | tbowden: | Oh, I know. |
| 07:03:32 | tbowden: | Sorry |
| 07:03:33 | jmckenna: | tisk tisk |
| 07:03:43 | TylerM: | good to see you all! |
| 07:03:46 | seven: | Thanks and bye! |
| 07:03:48 | gzeiss: | bye |
| 07:03:50 | tbowden: | Very upset I couldn't get there. |
| 07:04:00 | TylerM: | heya tim - next time I'll zip out west ; ) |
| 07:04:07 | tbowden: | personal/finance/health reasons |
| 07:04:13 | ravivundavalli: | Bi and good night |
| 07:04:22 | jmckenna: | tbowden: ok, hope all is well now. we missed you |
| 07:04:27 | tbowden: | Be good to catch up anytime TylerM |
| 07:04:28 | TylerM: | Meanwhile board - keep in mind any events I should attend, etc... keep in touch : ) |
| 07:04:33 | tbowden: | I've missed you lot for sure |
| 07:04:42 | jmckenna: | : ) well welcome back |
| 07:04:43 | tbowden: | but I had to stay low for a while... |
| 07:04:50 | TylerM: | tbowden: although with that crazy fumigation upon landing, I won't be back anytime soon ;- ) |
| 07:04:51 | tbowden: | thanks jmckenna |
| 07:04:52 | jmckenna: | no problem |
| 07:05:09 | TylerM: | tbowden: things changing at your end then? |
| 07:05:10 | tbowden: | ah yes, the joys of living in an isolated place... |
| 07:05:16 | tbowden: | hopefully yes |
| 07:05:22 | jmckenna: | it was a great event, and you deserve a lot of credit for bringing it there Tim |
| 07:05:28 | tbowden: | I've way more positive than I have been for a while |
| 07:05:44 | tbowden: | I think it was a bit touch and go there from lurking on the list... |
| 07:06:01 | tbowden: | with the downturn and all, but good to see it pulled through inthe end |
| 07:06:09 | jmckenna: | sure, but it all came together great..which is all that matters...yup! |
| 07:06:10 | tbowden: | Full credit to Cameron Shorter... |
| 07:06:17 | tbowden: | brilliant job he did |
| 07:06:17 | TylerM: | yeah amazing work |
| 07:06:22 | TylerM: | all round |
| 07:06:22 | tbowden: | and the others |
| 07:06:23 | jmckenna: | yeah he did a great job |
| 07:06:35 | tbowden: | I think he added a tight focus that was very necesarry |
| 07:06:49 | TylerM: | up to anything interesting? |
| 07:06:51 | tbowden: | mgmt skills much needed I think |
| 07:07:14 | tbowden: | only some small stuff atm, but as usual a few projects I'd like to push a long a bit |
| 07:07:23 | tbowden: | gotta try and pay the bills first though |
| 07:07:37 | tbowden: | been difficult lately but prospects are looking up |
| 07:08:11 | jmckenna: | yeah, I hope all of us benefit from a good 2010 |
| 07:08:18 | ajturner: | re: Fed gov conferences, did anyone submit to Gov2.0 Summit or Open Gov Innovations conferences? |
| 07:08:34 | TylerM: | hi ajturner - I haven't heard any myself |
| 07:08:36 | tbowden: | 20Ten is gonna be a way better year. So don't want to do '09 again. |
| 07:08:51 | TylerM: | ajturner: did you already? |
| 07:08:58 | ajturner: | both closed yesterday I think |
| 07:09:05 | ajturner: | on more general stuff |
| 07:09:13 | ajturner: | I spoke at both last year about open geo and data |
| 07:09:17 | TylerM: | can you recommend any others? |
| 07:10:19 | ajturner: | ah OGI is open until Jan 11 http://events.1105govinfo.com/events/open-government/home.aspx |
| 07:10:20 | sigq: | Title: Open Government and Innovations Conference and Exhibition: May 4-5, 2010 -- 1105 Government Information Group Events ( at events.1105govinfo.com ) |
| 07:10:34 | jmckenna: | TylerM: your time and date link for Feb meeting points to April. correct one i think: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?year=2010&month=02&day=04&hour=15&min=0&sec=0 |
| 07:10:35 | sigq: | Title: The Fixed Time World Clock ( at www.timeanddate.com ) |
| 07:10:56 | ajturner: | there is a USGS workshop on VGI in the National Map next week - several of us talking there about open geo and tools |
| 07:11:04 | TylerM: | jmckenna: thx! |
| 07:11:04 | ajturner: | open geospatial in general |
| 07:11:50 | ajturner: | NSGIC would be good http://www.nsgic.org/events/2010_midyear.cfm |
| 07:11:51 | sigq: | Title: NSGIC: Events / Conferences - 2010 Midyear Conference ( at www.nsgic.org ) |
| 07:12:18 | ajturner: | wonder about getting a presentation at an FGDC or NGAC meeting |
| 07:14:21 | TylerM: | good ideas, thx |
| 07:14:38 | TylerM: | biab.. better get some calories |
| 07:59:46 | TylerM: | @seen _wolf_ |
| 07:59:46 | sigq: | TylerM: _wolf_ was last seen in #osgeo 6 days, 19 hours, 6 minutes, and 36 seconds ago: <_wolf_> Happy New Year |
| 08:07:04 | darkblue_B: | hi all- just starting here in California... |
| 08:07:33 | darkblue_B: | FrankW I want you to know there is a specific reason that OSGeo wants to choose a 501( c )6 and not a 501( c )3 |
| 08:08:09 | darkblue_B: | ( c )3 is structured to take small donations from many, many individuals.. like GreenPeace or something, where a million people give $10 |
| 08:08:38 | darkblue_B: | a ( c )6 is a trade association, where the primary givers are companies |
| 08:09:08 | FrankW: | My understanding is that a c( 6 ) is not able to issue receipts for tax deductable contributions from individuals. This has been identified as highly desirable by some potential contributors. |
| 08:09:38 | darkblue_B: | .. OSGeo may be legally required to turn down money from companies |
| 08:09:46 | darkblue_B: | ( sorry, already typing.. I am listening ) |
| 08:09:59 | FrankW: | I'd be interested in information supporting that position. |
| 08:10:23 | FrankW: | I do understand that we still need to meet the public support test which means we can't be getting too much support from only a few organizations. |
| 08:10:28 | darkblue_B: | well I arranged a meeting with a consultant and Tyler, and that was brought up.. this is the experience of the other big OSS orgs right now |
| 08:11:08 | darkblue_B: | it seems curious that after a year the ( c )3 applicaiton is still sitting in the American IRS somewhere |
| 08:11:12 | darkblue_B: | thats my understadning |
| 08:11:26 | TylerM: | FrankW: i was going to ask for more info on the foundations mailing list |
| 08:11:40 | FrankW: | TylerM: that seems reasonable. |
| 08:11:43 | TylerM: | darkblue_B: right, I'm going to call them again and see also if they have a perspective on the c6 bit too |
| 08:12:03 | FrankW: | But as far as we are into the 501( c )3 process, I think we would need a very strong case to bail out. |
| 08:12:07 | TylerM: | the financial statements we gave them for the c3 app certainly don't show any individual donations |
| 08:12:26 | TylerM: | so I won't be surprised if that comes up as an issue/barrier |
| 08:12:41 | FrankW: | Did they not show the foss4g payments as individual contributions? |
| 08:12:43 | darkblue_B: | I understand that, and, I think the change of course from ( c )3 to ( c )6 is not so much a reversal as an adjustment |
| 08:13:00 | FrankW: | It was relatively important, as I understood, that we show those as public support from many individuals. |
| 08:13:09 | TylerM: | yes, that's right |
| 08:13:20 | darkblue_B: | aahhh ok - the tax structure for FOSS4G income, sure |
| 08:13:49 | TylerM: | frankw: you are correct, that was the individual side of things.. foss4g |
| 08:14:10 | : | * tbowden wonders if consultants should put a small line item on large invoices for OSGeo software development/funding ( or some such ) with proceeds to go to OSGeo gen rev. |
| 08:14:15 | FrankW: | Was the foss4g income included as individual support in the statements you submitted? |
| 08:14:35 | : | * FrankW thinks my clients would find such a line item confusing and off putting. |
| 08:14:36 | TylerM: | yes it was in fact |
| 08:14:46 | FrankW: | TylerM: ok, good. |
| 08:14:49 | darkblue_B: | uh - I am no multinational business whiz, but since the event is not in the US, it seems straightforward to consolidate the income from a non-US event to a isingle business before it enters a US org's books |
| 08:15:00 | TylerM: | not sure exactly how much, but certainly the sponsorship of foss4g wouldn't count. |
| 08:15:55 | tbowden: | foss4g might not often be in the US, but it is held by OSGeo, with LOC doing the legwork on behalf of |
| 08:16:23 | darkblue_B: | tbowden: the consultants invoice line item sounds promising |
| 08:16:50 | tbowden: | FrankW: line item: Software development professional support or some such |
| 08:16:53 | darkblue_B: | held by OSGeo.. hmm I guess that OSGeo really cant be a single legal entity worldwide, simply a brand |
| 08:17:18 | darkblue_B: | .. so by definition you are moving funds from one org to another across int'l boundaries |
| 08:17:35 | FrankW: | darkblue_B: I'm not sure why you say that OSGeo can't be a single legal entity worldwide. |
| 08:17:44 | tbowden: | no, I think any org can act anywhere in the world, and have the activity belong to it accounting wise |
| 08:17:56 | tbowden: | the funds stay with osgeo the whole time |
| 08:17:56 | darkblue_B: | I would be willing to spend a day in the library to support that |
| 08:18:16 | tbowden: | as far as I understand it which is very limited |
| 08:18:33 | darkblue_B: | I certainly defer to an authoratative citation |
| 08:18:41 | darkblue_B: | but thats my guess |
| 08:19:36 | darkblue_B: | the whole thing cries out for a wee bit of expert guidance |
| 08:19:51 | darkblue_B: | considering the org has to live with the results long term |
| 08:20:30 | FrankW: | I would note that we have received some expert advice in the past. |
| 08:21:11 | tbowden: | which is why we need peeps like Peter Batty on the board methinks |
| 08:21:26 | darkblue_B: | well the consultant was Kaliya, and she is actually in touch with a bunch of "big names" in the OSS org world here.. like frequently |
| 08:21:39 | TylerM: | darkblue_B: OSGEo basically contracts with conference management companies who run the shows for us |
| 08:21:43 | TylerM: | and give us income back |
| 08:22:20 | FrankW: | tbowden: What expertise would Peter bring? Info on non-profits operating worldwide? 501( c )3 vs. 501( c )6? |
| 08:22:34 | tbowden: | no, big business exp. |
| 08:23:00 | TylerM: | he was on the GITA too earlier, if I recall correctly |
| 08:23:04 | TylerM: | GITA board |
| 08:23:10 | FrankW: | ok, so it wasn't specifically related to what we were talking about. |
| 08:23:24 | FrankW: | I think Peter Batty would be a great asset - it just wasn't clear to me how that fit into the conversation. |
| 08:23:39 | tbowden: | no, not strictly, just wandering in my thoughts really... |
| 08:24:24 | tbowden: | sorry... |
| 08:26:10 | tbowden: | I think with his big business experience a lot of these sorts of issues would be cut through more quickly... |
| 08:26:22 | tbowden: | but maybe it wouldn't be so... |
| 08:26:52 | FrankW: | we do have other big business experience, now and in the past. |
| 08:26:55 | FrankW: | But it would of course be an asset. |
| 08:27:16 | FrankW: | general business experience is no replacement for specific understanding of particular us tax legal issues. |
| 08:27:18 | tbowden: | Yes, Adesk did bring some big stuff to the table for sure |
| 08:27:28 | tbowden: | true. |
| 08:28:34 | tbowden: | Is the 501( c )x issue really that complex? I'd have thought it should have been rather simple, but then I've no experience of what business in US is like |
| 08:29:09 | FrankW: | there are definately grey areas. |
| 08:29:19 | FrankW: | For instance what counts as public support. |
| 08:29:46 | FrankW: | and there is the subjective point about how important being able to issue charitable tax reciepts is. |
| 08:29:49 | tbowden: | so did we have a 'tips jar' at FOSS4G? |
| 08:30:07 | FrankW: | It is not our practice to operate a tips jar. |
| 08:30:11 | tbowden: | ie, credit card donations |
| 08:30:21 | FrankW: | we do accept paypal donations on the web site. |
| 08:30:26 | tbowden: | but if we want to establish public support, maybe we need to pull out all the stops |
| 08:31:18 | tbowden: | maybe we need to have a 'paypal donations' officer on the OSGeo stand at foss4g to finish all convos with 'would you like to support osgeo...' |
| 08:31:34 | FrankW: | If foss4g payments count as public support we should have no problem meeting the test. |
| 08:31:49 | FrankW: | The reduction in adsk funding isalso helpful from this point of view. |
| 08:31:50 | FrankW: | :-( |
| 08:32:19 | tbowden: | Can conf fees really count as public support? It'a a commercial transaction really |
| 08:32:28 | tbowden: | not a donation I'd have thought |
| 08:32:48 | tbowden: | Maybe at every OSGeo stand we need to push a line like that |
| 08:33:07 | tbowden: | end up with hundreds ( hopefully! ) of small donations and that bar gets jumped |
| 08:33:34 | tbowden: | even if it doesn't substantially improve the budget bottom line |
| 08:34:14 | tbowden: | or is it also a measure of what % the largest donor gives? |
| 08:34:31 | FrankW: | There was established precident that conference fees could be individually treated as contributions. |
| 08:34:48 | FrankW: | The test is somewhat involved. I don't have the details handy. |
| 08:35:11 | tbowden: | Ah, so maybe that bar is already jumped |
| 08:37:01 | TylerM: | there is a % test .. e.g. % of public donations vs. corp $ that the gov looks at.. not sure how we're fairing on that front at the moment with foss4g vs. other sponsorship |
| 08:37:49 | FrankW: | we are fine as long as foss4g fees count as individual support. |
| 08:38:06 | FrankW: | and my understanding is that there is no problem with corporate contributions. |
| 08:38:28 | FrankW: | But that there is a problem if the bulk of contributions are concentrated from only a few organizations ( or people ). |
| 08:38:37 | darkblue_B: | good people - this is important, even more so in light of the 1-2-3 of FrankW's agenda item.. I personally am looking to learn from orgs that have made, to better understand and hopefully apply practices that work |
| 08:39:15 | darkblue_B: | s/made/made things work/ |
| 08:39:16 | tbowden: | So the real problem is one of financial risk management, rather than regulatory hurdles? |
| 08:39:32 | TylerM: | FrankW: right, no doubt there |
| 08:39:37 | FrankW: | tbowden: what problem are you talking about? Whether we would fly as a 501( c )3? |
| 08:40:11 | TylerM: | the question is really whether we can retain 501c3 status in the future or how hard it might be |
| 08:40:14 | TylerM: | to do so |
| 08:40:16 | tbowden: | confused, I thought I was getting the idea the public support hurdle there was not so big? |
| 08:40:48 | tbowden: | if foss4g conf fees count, and we hold a foss4g every year, is there still a regulatory problem? |
| 08:41:07 | : | * racicot likes the idea of his FOSS4G fees being tax deductible ;- ) |
| 08:41:09 | TylerM: | it's just not 100% clear until tested : ) |
| 08:41:23 | tbowden: | Ah, so it's a case by case issue |
| 08:41:35 | FrankW: | There are vagarities with regard to FOSS4G. For instance, will they consider the conference arms length, and the profit as just one lump sum contribution? |
| 08:41:38 | TylerM: | we're still waiting to hear back from the gov really |
| 08:42:09 | tbowden: | Ah, if you're waiting for the govt, then... |
| 08:42:19 | TylerM: | racicot: hehe - but yeah, makes you wonder... if you can't get a receipt.. is it really a donation? :S |
| 08:42:41 | FrankW: | I'm personally more concerned about the fact that we have yet to make a corporate tax filing. |
| 08:42:55 | FrankW: | sooner or later we have to, and we must be getting to the "later" side of things. |
| 08:43:08 | TylerM: | tbowden: we put in an application using this rationale and will see if they accept it : ) |
| 08:43:18 | TylerM: | FrankW: I will be asking about that when I phone as well |
| 08:43:31 | FrankW: | TylerM: excellent. |
| 08:43:33 | TylerM: | because I assume a ruling on our application will affect that either way |
| 08:43:35 | tbowden: | racicot: why would foss4g fees not be tax deductible? It's a valid work related expense |
| 08:43:47 | TylerM: | ~sigh~... and here I feel like I forgot all the history on the application since it's taken sooo long |
| 08:43:56 | FrankW: | the question is whether they are a charitable contribution or not. |
| 08:44:04 | crschmidt: | tbowden: I guess the question is not tax de... that. |
| 08:44:11 | FrankW: | If employees in the field pay foss4g out of their own money that is not generally deductable. |
| 08:44:27 | FrankW: | But it is not a problem for consultants like us who can easily deduct things as business expenses. |
| 08:44:28 | TylerM: | crschmidt: you mentioned 501c3 in your goals for 2010 - in what ways are hoping that will help? |
| 08:44:32 | tbowden: | crikeys, in Aus it would be I believe |
| 08:44:33 | TylerM: | just curious |
| 08:44:33 | racicot: | well, there is a diff between work expense and charitable donation... |
| 08:44:54 | : | * racicot really should not get involved in this conversation .... |
| 08:45:05 | TylerM: | heh |
| 08:45:39 | TylerM: | the obvious one is that individuals could get a personal tax break, aside from any consulting/biz |
| 08:46:04 | : | * tbowden is still seeing it hard to fathom how foss4g conf fees could be considered a charitable donation |
| 08:46:14 | FrankW: | I would add that some folks say it is also much easier to raise money from foundations if we are 501( c )3 vs. 501( c )6. |
| 08:46:25 | tbowden: | In Aus, if you get something in return for a donation, it's not a donation for charitable purposes |
| 08:46:37 | TylerM: | darkblue_B: you have a sense on that at all?.. fundraising potential for c6 i mean |
| 08:46:49 | tbowden: | All those charities that gave out pens and such when you put money in the tin got caught by this one locally |
| 08:47:01 | TylerM: | i can imagine |
| 08:47:03 | FrankW: | tbowden: I'm not sure that we would be able to issue a charitable receipt for them. |
| 08:47:38 | TylerM: | I guess if it was a charitable event would you have let everyone in for free, but then simply ask for a entrance fee donation? ;- ) hehe |
| 08:48:02 | tbowden: | Here I believe conf fees are a straight business expense, regardless of who pays, employee or employer, but I'm not an accountant so take that with appropriate salt |
| 08:48:37 | darkblue_B: | hi - I am multi-tasking now.. I would really look to some experience now.. most of what has been said shows that it is not wasy to guess the answer on a lot of this |
| 08:48:43 | TylerM: | jmckenna: I put 2006 archives onto a main osgeo server. You can put it on a blade if you want, but I don't see why |
| 08:49:01 | TylerM: | darkblue_B: i hear ya |
| 08:49:13 | darkblue_B: | .. so I wrote an email to Kaliya requesting some specific contacts |
| 08:49:29 | FrankW: | thanks darkblue_B |
| 08:49:37 | darkblue_B: | you are welcome |
| 08:49:39 | TylerM: | yes, excellent |
| 08:54:27 | jmckenna: | TylerM: i was thinking we could try to consolidate to xblade14, since others are there ( and I have access ). |
| 08:54:52 | TylerM: | heh just emailed you |
| 08:55:03 | jmckenna: | ha, ok thanks |
| 08:55:04 | TylerM: | personally I think we have too much on the blades already |
| 08:55:15 | TylerM: | so i put it on main osgeo server. |
| 08:55:35 | TylerM: | assuming it's going to be static anyway ?? |
| 08:55:41 | jmckenna: | thanks for updating the wiki page - it was getting confusing where everything lives |
| 08:55:44 | jmckenna: | true true |
| 08:56:19 | jmckenna: | but, as far as i know, i don't have any access to main server, and xblade i do...but no worries, it's static as you said : ) |
| 08:56:43 | jmckenna: | it's more important that we document, as you did. so, mark as fixed : ) |
| 08:57:07 | TylerM: | initially thought we'd use blades for experimental stuff or more intensive processes.. not more critical things. I still have nightmares about half our project sites being inaccessible for a week ;- ) |
| 08:57:23 | TylerM: | not my call of course : ) but hope this works for you, we can move wherever you'd like of course |
| 08:57:32 | jmckenna: | totally works, thanks |
| 08:57:51 | TylerM: | okay great |
| 08:58:01 | TylerM: | how are things yjacolin ? |
| 08:58:14 | yjacolin: | hello |
| 08:58:25 | yjacolin: | nice : ) |
| 08:58:57 | yjacolin: | I am working for C2C now, for 1 month |
| 08:59:09 | TylerM: | hi - good to hear and bonne année! |
| 08:59:27 | yjacolin: | oh yes : bonne année ! |
| 08:59:53 | yjacolin: | time go so fast : ) |
| 09:00:42 | TylerM: | incroyable - mais oui ; ) |
| 09:02:31 | yjacolin: | almost end ofthe day here, need to leave : ) |
| 09:02:49 | yjacolin: | I hope to see you in Barcelonna \o/ |
| 09:02:53 | yjacolin: | see you : ) |
| 09:02:59 | TylerM: | and you - maybe sooner |
| 09:03:08 | TylerM: | let me know of any important event to speak at |
| 09:32:03 | darkblue_B: | TylerM: Kaliya says the Foundations list is the best resource immediately, including the archives.. more contacts possible after the 11th |
| 09:32:23 | TylerM: | darkblue_B: right-o thx, drafting an email already |
| 13:10:51 | cgs_bob: | hello all. some of you probably already seen my message: Just got some good news. The State of California CIO has just published an Open Source Software Policy letter that formally establishes the use of OSS in California state government. See http://www.cio.ca.gov/Government/IT_Policy/pdf/IT_Policy_Letter_10-01_Open_Source_Software.pdf |
| 13:12:41 | darkblue_B: | nice |
| 13:19:13 | cgs_bob: | darkblue_B: hopefully this will allow foss4g to be introduced into state government. at least I hope that happens : ) |
| 13:43:48 | TylerM: | cgs_bob: nice.. any ideas for how we could get in the door? |
| 13:44:13 | TylerM: | cgs_bob: are you in southern CA nowadays? |
| 13:45:37 | TylerM: | bwoodall / HyperJohnGraham - see my note to california list re: free booth for osgeo at linux show in LA.. in case you are interested : ) |
| 13:47:16 | darkblue_B: | hi TylerM you may recall both Alex and I have met with Mike Byrne since he was appointed.. they are very keen on OSGeo, for exaample following the results of the W*S shootout |
| 13:47:34 | TylerM: | yes, right.. |
| 13:47:41 | TylerM: | curious on next steps ideas |
| 13:47:51 | darkblue_B: | Mike Byrne is a direct report to Terry Takai, who signed that letter |
| 13:49:38 | wildintellect: | SCALE is on our list - I guess I should update for 2010 |
| 13:49:58 | wildintellect: | I have the organizers card on my desk from when we met him at OSCON |
| 13:52:12 | TylerM: | So you can get a crew together for it? |
| 13:52:32 | TylerM: | Anyone volunteering as main contact? : ) if so, I'll reply and then send them your way. |
| 13:52:53 | TylerM: | rburhum: you interested in coordinating the booth then? |
| 13:52:57 | wildintellect: | Maybe we only have 1 solid member in LA |
| 13:53:29 | TylerM: | Ragi wrote me off line since he was cc'd to the email I got.. I just need a nod to say yes we'll take it : ) |
| 13:54:12 | cgs_bob: | TylerM: one of the ways to get into the door is for osgeo to have a presence at GTC West ( http://www.govtech.com/events/gtcwest2010 ) |
| 13:54:13 | sigq: | Title: Home Page - GTC West: The California Digital Government Summit ( at www.govtech.com ) |
| 13:55:19 | darkblue_B: | well I want to not get into a huge discussion this second, but, foot in the door might not be the best way to characterize the situation |
| 13:55:19 | darkblue_B: | .. its quite differnt than that |
| 13:56:54 | darkblue_B: | OSGeo is highly visible to a few super sharp observers |
| 13:56:55 | darkblue_B: | .. but OSGeo really has not much of a plan in place as to what to do or what to "get" or whatnot |
| 13:56:59 | darkblue_B: | Certainly much credit to the very very good marketing efforts |
| 13:57:02 | darkblue_B: | but thats more general |
| 14:00:07 | wildintellect: | TylerM, thanks for the notice on SCALE we'll take that and the notice from CGS_Bob( who is in Sac I believe ) and discuss more on our list |
| 14:00:33 | cgs_bob: | darkblue_B: I agree. but it was very helpful for a bunch of us who attended AGU and go to the 2 open source sessions. |
| 14:00:54 | darkblue_B: | GTC West sounds good |
| 14:01:38 | wildintellect: | cgs_bob, oh good you made it to the conf |
| 14:03:40 | cgs_bob: | wildintellect: I couldn't go, but we had a bunch of geologist go. a few have not tried foss4g yet. |
| 14:04:54 | cgs_bob: | I'll definitely go to GTC West...it is just 6 blocks from me : ) |
| 14:05:28 | wildintellect: | great, I'm putting it on the wiki right now |
| 14:13:12 | TylerM: | cgs_bob: don't tell me I missed you at AGU! : ) |
| 14:13:23 | TylerM: | ahh i see now : ) |
| 14:13:47 | TylerM: | did you get any feedback from the foss sessions they attended? |
| 14:14:34 | wildintellect: | I'm sure dylan B was there - I'll ask him |
| 14:24:11 | TylerM: | he was only there for one day on the monday unfortunately, so i missed him :[ |
| 14:28:38 | cgs_bob: | TylerM: my boss told me that he liked your talk : ) |
| 14:28:55 | TylerM: | \o/ high five .. great thanks : ) |
| 16:03:26 | bwoodall: | sounds like Cal is rocking |