#POSTGIS IRC Log - 2008-08-28

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11:21:09 sigq: geosfeed: Ticket #201 ( defect updated ): Current locale considered when converting a geometry to WKT <http://trac.osgeo.org/geos/ticket/201#comment:9>
13:10:11 CIA-14: robe * r2932 /trunk/doc/installation.xml: Fixed url links to geos and proj. Both are now osgeo projects and no longer at refractions or remotesensing. Move around instructions putting geos and proj compilation steps at the end per Mark's request
13:34:26 CIA-14: mloskot * r2173 /trunk/tests/unit/ ( Makefile.am capi/GEOSGeomToWKTTest.cpp ): tests/unit: added GEOSGeomToWKTTest.
13:47:20 darkblue_B: thanks for the explicit mention of ldconfig in the install docs.. yesterday I was in a hurry and had multiple tasks, and the ldconfig step was irritating.. ( I came up with several steps that didnt work.. what can I say )
14:20:03 CIA-14: sgillies * r2174 /trunk/ ( 5 files in 4 dirs ): Added CLocalizer class that switches to C locale and restores to the outer context's locale when deleted ( #201 )
14:22:03 sigq: geosfeed: Ticket #201 ( defect updated ): Current locale considered when converting a geometry to WKT <http://trac.osgeo.org/geos/ticket/201#comment:10>
16:10:30 sigq: geosfeed: Ticket #202 ( defect created ): Undefined behavior in Coordinate::hashCode <http://trac.osgeo.org/geos/ticket/202>
16:29:12 CIA-14: mloskot * r2175 /trunk/source/ ( headers/geos/io/WKBWriter.h io/WKBWriter.cpp ): Added missing virtual destructor to WKBWriter class.
16:30:00 CIA-14: mloskot * r2176 /trunk/capi/geos_c.cpp: Fixed execution paths and removed redundant return expr in some C API calls.
20:04:55 : <_thom_> Hello. I have a project idea in mind and I'm trying to figure out if PostGIS is right for the project, and which front end I might use. Anyone have a few minutes?
20:06:03 iggy: irc rule # 38194501: don't ask to ask, just ask
20:06:10 : <_thom_> Fair enough.
20:06:29 iggy: that said, it's usually quiet here this time of night
20:06:43 : <_thom_> I'm using netdisco ( which has a postgres backend ) to monitor all of our network switches and servers / end user machines
20:07:23 : <_thom_> I've created a map of our office from blueprints in illustrator... one thing I've already done is use sketchup to put that into google earth.
20:08:12 : <_thom_> I think I see a very easy way to publish kml out of postGIS for use in Google Earth, and if I wanted to get fancy with it, the data could update dynamically.
20:08:47 : <_thom_> However, it all falls apart when I need to give someone the ability to fly around the map and add/edit items in various layers.
20:09:34 : <_thom_> Granted, I don't know whether google earth offers this kind of interactivity, but if it does, I certainly have not seen it
20:10:35 : <_thom_> So I'm wondering ( before I strike out to reinvent the wheel ) if there are any good open source projects out there that let you use some other kind of front-end ( could be less pretty, somewhat clunky even ) to add or edit map items?
20:11:58 darkblue_B: yes.. I know about this
20:11:59 sigq: geosfeed: Ticket #201 ( defect updated ): Current locale considered when converting a geometry to WKT <http://trac.osgeo.org/geos/ticket/201#comment:11>
20:12:52 darkblue_B: _thom_: you want to make KML... and you want to add/edit items?
20:13:16 darkblue_B: Google Earth itself is not so great for that.. it can edit the items
20:13:36 : <_thom_> darkblue_B: Making the KML seems pretty straightforward. However, making an easy-to-use web GUI that talks to a PostGIS back-end seems less trivial.
20:13:38 darkblue_B: but putting them back into a data store... if there is a way I'm not aware of it
20:13:57 darkblue_B: well, it just so happens that there is such a project. using flat maps and kML
20:14:06 darkblue_B: its called FeatureServer
20:14:17 darkblue_B: its pretty nifty
20:14:28 : <_thom_> Right, which is why I would offer my admins some kind of flash or alternate front end
20:14:30 : * _thom_ googles
20:15:05 darkblue_B: the new verb...
20:16:01 darkblue_B: it does what you want out of the box.. though customizing the map and web page is a bit more
20:16:14 darkblue_B: *I* think its one of the best inventions out there
20:16:18 darkblue_B: in OSS land
20:16:24 : <_thom_> it's RESTful, which is cool
20:16:34 darkblue_B: yes...
20:16:56 : <_thom_> it would still take a lot of hacking on it but this is a nice layer, thank you for the pointer
20:17:12 darkblue_B: you get GeoRSS, KML and a few others.. just change the URL
20:17:37 darkblue_B: PostGIS, and a few other backends.. plug-in replaceable
20:17:42 : <_thom_> I'm still thinking it through, trying to figure out what I still need to put in the shopping cart
20:17:52 darkblue_B: and.. editing of the data source built in
20:19:41 : <_thom_> the demo seems sluggish
20:20:08 darkblue_B: _thom_: for what you are getting built in?
20:20:24 : <_thom_> hear, hear
20:20:26 darkblue_B: your not gonna find C++ thats all laid out for you
20:20:37 : <_thom_> heh
20:20:39 darkblue_B: it looks like that layer has been abused
20:20:58 darkblue_B: some of it is the time the browser takes to draw the polys
20:21:03 darkblue_B: some is the fetch time
20:21:11 darkblue_B: some is the query time
20:21:27 darkblue_B: I'll bet we are seeing the browser lag a little
20:21:55 darkblue_B: once you have editable features like that.. graffiti is hard to avoid!
20:22:22 : <_thom_> heh, sure. I bet the author of the demo didn't consider an auto-clean feature
20:23:32 iggy: plus demos are almost always running on the worst kit known to man
20:28:37 : <_thom_> Okay, so if I'm understanding this, one of my options would be to wrie a client-side javascript app ( like this demo ) and use that plus this featureserver implementation to his my postgis data
20:29:02 : <_thom_> though it could just as easily be flash or whatever else floats my boat
20:31:22 sigq: geosfeed: Ticket #203 ( defect created ): Carry back localization fix from r2174 <http://trac.osgeo.org/geos/ticket/203>
20:41:31 darkblue_B: yep
20:42:34 : <_thom_> Ever played with geoar?
20:42:59 darkblue_B: hmm no
20:43:06 darkblue_B: hadnt heard of it
20:43:36 darkblue_B: though .. I thought I'd mention I am available for a consult on the FeatureServer/PostGIS combo
20:43:52 darkblue_B: http://24.7.79.159/portfolioMisc/
20:43:53 sigq: Title: All Things Digital Maps ( at 24.7.79.159 )
20:44:56 darkblue_B: those geoar guys need some help with their logo ;- )
20:45:10 : <_thom_> This is your portfolio? Impressive
20:45:25 darkblue_B: thanks.. only 1 year+ of my life!
20:45:31 darkblue_B: tell my wife :- )
20:45:45 : <_thom_> typo though: it's 'hierarchical' I think ( interra )
20:45:58 darkblue_B: ok.. can fix that
20:47:23 darkblue_B: ok.. fixed
20:47:25 darkblue_B: thx
20:47:29 : <_thom_> np
20:47:53 : <_thom_> fwiw, the reason I'm working on this project is because our budget for next year was cut by 10% across the board, which is really bad
20:48:06 : <_thom_> 60% of our information systems budget is people
20:48:13 darkblue_B: this is unfortunately a trend I fnd in PostGIS
20:48:26 darkblue_B: people come because they aerr out of money.. and smart
20:48:31 : <_thom_> meaning that between 1/4 and 1/3 of all 'stuff' ( hardware/software/etc )
20:48:48 : <_thom_> has to go away, so we're all working on inward-facing projects that don't require us to buy a lot of stuff
20:48:53 darkblue_B: I thought that would be neat when I started.. that I could apply PostGIS to things that arent necessarily big money.. like my enviro causes
20:49:19 : <_thom_> on top of which, we're a nonprofit, so we already sucked at spending much money
20:49:34 darkblue_B: .. but after a while I am finding it hard that almost all the projects I run nto are not sufficiently funded ...
20:49:45 darkblue_B: _thom_: not PCH are you?
20:49:52 : <_thom_> So, I appreciate your input and pointers to resources but I certainly don't want to waste your time thinking I have any consulting funds, sorry.
20:49:57 : <_thom_> pch?
20:50:08 darkblue_B: Packet Clearing House
20:50:11 : <_thom_> it's cool to see an Austin site on there btw
20:50:15 darkblue_B: its a network research nonprofit
20:50:31 darkblue_B: ah so.. thumbs up to Austin
20:50:33 : <_thom_> no, I am a systems engineer at the Adler Planetarium and Astronomy Museum in Chicago
20:50:38 darkblue_B: oh neat
20:50:43 : <_thom_> my wife is trying to get me to move down there
20:50:58 : <_thom_> yeah, it's a lot of fun but I've been there six years now so... we'll see
20:51:03 darkblue_B: I am in contact with the International Assoc of Planetariums ( something like that_
20:51:12 : <_thom_> the IPS?
20:51:13 darkblue_B: aha
20:51:20 darkblue_B: yeah I think thats it
20:51:26 darkblue_B: they want me to do their new web site
20:51:33 : <_thom_> who's having you do what? We just hosted IPS 2008.
20:51:39 darkblue_B: really?
20:51:45 : <_thom_> yep, chicago. ips2008.org
20:51:53 darkblue_B: well my contact is...
20:54:41 darkblue_B: Alan Gould.. at the Lawrence Berkeley site
20:55:27 : <_thom_> the name sounds familiar but odds are one of my colleagues ( either on the astronomy side, or the exhibits/theaters side ) would know him
20:55:47 darkblue_B: oh yes.. they have a member directory
20:55:53 darkblue_B: a short list of names and phone numbers
20:55:57 darkblue_B: very orderly
20:56:13 : <_thom_> Though I may have driven him to a conference event iirc
20:56:14 iggy: zomg!!! I've been to that trudy's
20:56:14 darkblue_B: I think Alan is an officeer of some kind
20:56:44 : <_thom_> Heh, small world
20:56:52 : * _thom_ cannot wait for this year's ACL
20:57:17 : <_thom_> less than a month away and Zilker goes nuts
20:58:12 iggy: was supposed to go year before last, but my buddy lost his tickets.... silly druggies
20:58:31 : <_thom_> bummer. that was my first one
20:59:10 iggy: I used to work at an insurance company in Austin
20:59:13 : <_thom_> this year we're meeting up with my wife's good friend and bringing her godkids along to a few of the kiddie limits sets
21:00:01 iggy: my old boss owns a couple pharmacies, bars, and apt complexes... so I always did fun stuff with him, but never any of the big festivals
21:00:29 iggy: was a shame too, I'll bet he could have gotten some good access
21:01:03 : <_thom_> If we move down there we might do it as volunteers, we talked to a few folks who were doing that
21:01:27 iggy: where do you live?
21:01:31 iggy: I'm in Houston now
21:01:39 darkblue_B: Houston!
21:01:45 darkblue_B: how hot was it today ?
21:01:46 : <_thom_> Yeah, at Gulfstream by the looks of it ; )
21:01:51 : * _thom_ is in Chicago
21:02:09 iggy: oh, a bit away then
21:02:30 : <_thom_> yeah. I've driven the 1,000 miles and stopped by Graceland halfway, last year
21:02:41 iggy: gulfstream is actually one of my clients, I use their spam server to irc from
21:02:42 : <_thom_> hah, nice
21:02:42 iggy: ssshhh!
21:02:45 darkblue_B: the GeoDjango guys are in Houston..
21:02:48 : * _thom_ twiddles thumbs, looks all around
21:02:55 iggy: darkblue_B: no shit!!!
21:03:10 iggy: I'm going to have to find them
21:03:21 darkblue_B: yeah.. I hung out with them alot when they were here in SF for Where 2.0
21:03:27 : <_thom_> maybe you can use... geodjango to do so :p
21:03:40 iggy: darkblue_B: and the weather wasn't too bad today
21:03:52 iggy: it's been not horrible this summer
21:03:52 darkblue_B: GeoDjango is in trunk Django for 1.0 now
21:04:01 darkblue_B: contribGIS or something
21:04:12 darkblue_B: iggy: you are acclimating
21:04:34 iggy: thought about using for what I'm doing, but the other devs in the office have enough trouble with php
21:04:49 darkblue_B: php => sucks by definition
21:04:52 : <_thom_> heh
21:05:06 iggy: I was born about 45 mins north of houston, so if I was going to acclimate, it would have happened already
21:05:12 : <_thom_> It's just easy enough to use that you can get yourself into serious trouble with it
21:05:18 darkblue_B: I come from C++.. and I still cant get over the slop that is commercial web programming
21:05:34 darkblue_B: . but then , I dont lke where C++ has gone these days much either
21:05:38 : <_thom_> But you can do clean, well-separated php
21:05:47 darkblue_B: probably true
21:06:01 : <_thom_> ...there just isn't much of it out there because who has time to do it right and prettily? ; )
21:06:07 iggy: try working on a rather large realtor marketing site with 2.5 complete idiots
21:06:14 : <_thom_> most php examples are blind leading the blind
21:06:23 darkblue_B: yeah, and there is no sense that anything will last
21:06:30 darkblue_B: blind -> definitely
21:06:35 : <_thom_> "pass the chewing gum"
21:06:42 darkblue_B: :P
21:07:15 iggy: we have this guy who constantly goes through and reformats _all_ code ( not just his own ) to look how he wants it
21:07:23 : <_thom_> THe more of these frameworks I look at the harder it is getting ; )
21:07:46 iggy: A. there's no need to do that to every piece of code
21:07:47 : * _thom_ is com-founded by a wealth of obstatunaties hyeah
21:08:01 darkblue_B: yeah. at our programmers group in Berkeley, one guy was saying.. "Once you learn a few languages, you can program in anyhting"//
21:08:08 iggy: B. his "style" involves removing pretty much all white space
21:08:08 : <_thom_> iggy: is it the whole "new curly brace on a new line" thing?
21:08:12 : <_thom_> oh, the opposite
21:08:17 darkblue_B: .. and I said.. "I am *so* not like that"
21:08:25 darkblue_B: .. I have to learn things well.. its my nature
21:08:37 iggy: he puts 4-6 things on a single line
21:08:38 : <_thom_> well the first 90% is learning how to think like a programmer
21:08:45 darkblue_B: I am uncomfortable doing one off thigns in an odd language
21:08:50 : <_thom_> the other 90% is learning the features and stupid nuances of the language in question
21:08:52 darkblue_B: sure
21:08:55 darkblue_B: !!
21:08:57 iggy: it's okay
21:09:07 iggy: he works directly for my client
21:09:13 : <_thom_> heh. and if it runs...
21:09:17 iggy: so I just bill them to undo it all
21:09:18 iggy: : )
21:09:19 : <_thom_> who cares? ; )
21:10:09 iggy: I put in my billing notes that I'm undoing his completely incomprehensible "code style"
21:10:18 iggy: put in a few hours
21:10:29 iggy: eventually someone is going to notice and say something to him
21:10:45 iggy: or I'm going to get a bonus for being the highest biller
21:10:51 : <_thom_> if they don't notice, tack on a few more hours ; )
21:10:53 iggy: either way, I can deal
21:11:03 darkblue_B: i put curly brackets on the same line as "if".. thats all I am sayng :- )
21:11:42 iggy: I learned to program in the linux kernel, so my style might throw some people off, but his is just atrocious
21:12:20 : <_thom_> So your style permits swearing in comments, right?
21:12:27 iggy: you know it
21:12:52 iggy: it's funny you should mention... when the project first started, it was just me
21:13:30 iggy: then more people got added on, so I've had to run grep through the source tree to find all the things I need to take out
21:13:35 : <_thom_> hah
21:14:28 : <_thom_> a/( these [fF]ucking morons )/my coworkers/
21:14:34 : <_thom_> er, s/
21:14:35 : <_thom_> ykwim
21:17:15 iggy: over 220k LOC
21:17:21 iggy: that's pretty impressive
21:17:42 darkblue_B: you said morons 220k times?
21:17:44 darkblue_B: wow
21:17:45 iggy: and yet, kind of sad
21:18:02 : <_thom_> or swore in general in all of those
21:18:22 iggy: general swearing across all those
21:22:00 iggy: darkblue_B: you do consulting?
21:22:05 darkblue_B: yep
21:22:15 darkblue_B: I'm doing some right now :- )
21:22:20 darkblue_B: .. and chatting
21:24:05 iggy: curious, because I'm pretty sure we violate yahoo's TOS as far as use for commercial sites goes, so at some point we're going to have to move to something else, and I really don't want to be the person doing it
21:24:15 iggy: darkblue_B: how much you charge per hour?
21:24:31 darkblue_B: that is negotiable, naturally :- )
21:24:46 darkblue_B: depends on commute, time lines, nature of the work
21:25:33 darkblue_B: You can probably build anything with OpenLayers..
21:25:35 iggy: I doubt you'd have commute to Houston, nfc, replace yahoo mapping with something else?
21:25:39 darkblue_B: without knowing the details
21:26:02 darkblue_B: the base layer is the thing
21:26:07 darkblue_B: wherer you get your base layers
21:26:21 darkblue_B: what you are doing with it
21:26:27 darkblue_B: I dd Yahoo at first..
21:26:51 darkblue_B: I still use their geocder from time to time
21:26:52 iggy: I noticed, it's what piqued my interest
21:27:22 iggy: we map addresses ( lat,lon ) over a street map
21:27:31 darkblue_B: sure
21:28:53 iggy: it's a marketing tool for realtors, then enter a house they are trying to sell or whatever and send printed cards to a certain number of houses around it
21:29:03 iggy: *they enter
21:29:23 iggy: they like to see where they are sending it before hand
21:30:02 darkblue_B: yep
21:30:05 darkblue_B: can do
21:30:24 iggy: don't need a quote or anything, just wondering if it's less than we charge them so we can outsource it so I don't have to do it
21:31:23 darkblue_B: sure..
21:31:26 darkblue_B: we can talk
21:31:37 iggy: <$95?